It's not the loud pipes, it's the assholes

[Lew]

Lots of opinions about motorcycle noise around here lately. Here's
mine. The problem isn't loud pipes, it's assholes with loud pipes.
They think their pipes make them bad asses and go out of their way to
make other people uncomfortable. They are in the minority. Charity
rides and events like "Rolling Thunder" are full of good people with
loud pipes. Unfortunately, a few assholes are giving them a bad name.

[l***@riskrights.com]

Post by Lew
Unfortunately, a few assholes are giving them a bad name.

Creeping slowly towards the issue...

[S'mee]

Post by l***@riskrights.com

Post by Lew
Unfortunately, a few assholes are giving them a bad name.

Creeping slowly towards the issue...

piss off when you DO something then you may speak.

[Timberwoof]

Post by Lew
Lots of opinions about motorcycle noise around here lately. Here's
mine. The problem isn't loud pipes, it's assholes with loud pipes.
They think their pipes make them bad asses and go out of their way to
make other people uncomfortable. They are in the minority. Charity
rides and events like "Rolling Thunder" are full of good people with
loud pipes. Unfortunately, a few assholes are giving them a bad name.

I usually can't tell whether someone with loud pipes actually is an
asshole or is just trying to be mistaken for one. It doesn't matter to
me: whether he's an asshole or not, the motorcycle makes too much noise.

[oasysco]

Post by Timberwoof

Lots of opinions about motorcycle noise around here lately.  Here's
mine.  The problem isn't loud pipes, it's assholes with loud pipes.  
They think their pipes make them bad asses and go out of their way to
make other people uncomfortable.  They are in the minority.  Charity
rides and events like "Rolling Thunder" are full of good people with
loud pipes.  Unfortunately, a few assholes are giving them a bad name.

I usually can't tell whether someone with loud pipes actually is an
asshole or is just trying to be mistaken for one. It doesn't matter to
me: whether he's an asshole or not, the motorcycle makes too much noise.

Yeah, I agree! Who do they think they are!

Why just last weekend, the wife and I were in the cage on the far aide
of a 4 lane divided highway, ready to pull out to the other side when
all of a sudden I hear a bike coming. I can't see it, but I know it's
in the area, so i start looking and sure enough, there it comes.

A few weeks ago, I almost got nailed by a small herd of deer while
riding my bike only to find out shortly thereafter from bystanders
that my loud pipes caused the herd to shift direction at the last
moment, allowing me to skirt a tragedy.

And now with my stock pipes on my new bike, I've noticed that I'm
using the horn a whole lot more to warn cars that I'm there - during
the daytime! I didnt use my horn near as much with my ex-loud pipe
bike.

And I never blipped the throttle when stopped on the loud bike.

Just who do they think they are! Warning us they're in the area! :)-

It's like smoking; I don't care if you smoke, but I choose not to. You
want loud pipes then by all means you should have 'em as long you
don't blip them unnecessarily.

Greg

Post by Timberwoof
--
Timberwoof <me at timberwoof dot com>
faq:  http://www.timberwoof.com/motorcycle/faq.shtml
Ten Steps to Fascism:http://www.guardian.co.uk/usa/story/0,,2064157,00.html

[Bob Myers]

Post by oasysco
And now with my stock pipes on my new bike, I've noticed that I'm
using the horn a whole lot more to warn cars that I'm there - during
the daytime! I didnt use my horn near as much with my ex-loud pipe
bike.

I dunno about your, but one big difference between MY
horn and somebody else's loud pipes is that the horn
sounds only when I push the button. Loud pipes are
obnoxious all the time, and that's both the problem and
their major shortcoming as a "safety enhancement" (if
that's how someone is trying to justify them) - a CONSTANT
noise source tends to very quickly be ignored to the
extent that it can. Low-frequency sound also isn't very
easily located by listeners; if you want to make a noise that
will quickly direct people's attention toward the bike, well,
again, the horn does a much better job.

Bob M.

[Sheep]

Post by Bob Myers

Post by oasysco
And now with my stock pipes on my new bike, I've noticed that I'm
using the horn a whole lot more to warn cars that I'm there - during
the daytime! I didnt use my horn near as much with my ex-loud pipe
bike.

I dunno about your, but one big difference between MY
horn and somebody else's loud pipes is that the horn
sounds only when I push the button. Loud pipes are
obnoxious all the time, and that's both the problem and
their major shortcoming as a "safety enhancement" (if
that's how someone is trying to justify them) - a CONSTANT
noise source tends to very quickly be ignored to the
extent that it can. Low-frequency sound also isn't very
easily located by listeners; if you want to make a noise that
will quickly direct people's attention toward the bike, well,
again, the horn does a much better job.
Bob M.

I have quiet pipes. I think I have a horn. Not sure it works though.
I'll check the next time I ride in about an hour.

My neighbor now, he has loud pipes. The dog down the street chases
him but never chases me. He has an even louder freaking air horn.
Uses it a lot. Never sure why. I think he just likes to be
obnoxious.

I always figure if I have time to use the horn then it's not necessary
to use it.

YOMV


Dave (Dukes Sheep)
'07 FLHTCU NAH#2 DOF #5 SENS
"Oh bother" said Pooh, as he was connected at 14.4kps

A: Because it disturbs the logical flow of the message.
Q: Why is topposting frowned upon?

[Kenneth P. Turvey]

Post by Sheep
I always figure if I have time to use the horn then it's not necessary
to use it.

A horn has saved me at least once. Sometimes another driver is trying to
kill you slowly, at least in a relative sense.

I only remember it, because I later wondered about how to make my horn
louder. It was fairly easy to ignore the way it came from Honda.

[Bob Myers]

Post by Kenneth P. Turvey

Post by Sheep
I always figure if I have time to use the horn then it's not necessary
to use it.

A horn has saved me at least once. Sometimes another driver is trying to
kill you slowly, at least in a relative sense.
I only remember it, because I later wondered about how to make my horn
louder. It was fairly easy to ignore the way it came from Honda.

Aftermarket horns. I swapped my wimpy stock horn
out for a pair of FIAMM "Freeway Blasters" and it
has really made a difference.

As to Sheep's "if I have time to use the horn..." - it takes
very little time IF you have practiced it, just like everything
else. Again, dunno about yours, but my horn button is operated
by my left thumb, which doesn't seem to have a whole lot to
do when I'm swerving, doing a quickest-possible stop, etc., etc..
When you're practicing such things - and you DO, right? -
including a quick stab at the horn button will make this an
automatic response when you need it. These days, when I
find myself covering the brake and clutch, I'm also poised to
give the horn a quick press.

Bob M.

[Kenneth P. Turvey]

Post by Bob Myers
When you're practicing such things -
and you DO, right? - including a quick stab at the horn button will make
this an automatic response when you need it. These days, when I find
myself covering the brake and clutch, I'm also poised to give the horn a
quick press.

I got so I kept my thumb on the horn button when I was in traffic and
there was any sign of risk, but still, the time it took to honk the horn
was longer than I would have liked. It just didn't happen
automatically. My mind went through the, "whoa, what the hell", before
actually hitting the horn.

I never did get the horn replaced. I thought about it more than once,
but just never got around to it.

[t***@erols.com]

Post by Sheep
I always figure if I have time to use the horn then it's not necessary
to use it.

A horn has saved me at least once.  Sometimes another driver is trying to
kill you slowly, at least in a relative sense.
I only remember it, because I later wondered about how to make my horn
louder.  It was fairly easy to ignore the way it came from Honda.

Aftermarket horns.  I swapped my wimpy stock horn
out for a pair of FIAMM "Freeway Blasters" and it
has really made a difference.
As to Sheep's "if I have time to use the horn..." - it takes
very little time IF you have practiced it, just like everything
else.  Again, dunno about yours, but my horn button is operated
by my left thumb, which doesn't seem to have a whole lot to
do when I'm swerving, doing a quickest-possible stop, etc., etc..
When you're practicing such things - and you DO, right? -
including a quick stab at the horn button will make this an
automatic response when you need it.  These days, when I
find myself covering the brake and clutch, I'm also poised to
give the horn a quick press.

I use the horn to communicate. Generally, if I am forced to have to
take evasive action, it is too late for communication to do any good
at all.

[Michael R. Kesti]

Post by t***@erols.com
I use the horn to communicate. Generally, if I am forced to have to
take evasive action, it is too late for communication to do any good
at all.

Roger that and I like my Fiamms, too.

[Bob Myers]

Post by t***@erols.com
I use the horn to communicate. Generally, if I am forced to have to
take evasive action, it is too late for communication to do any good
at all.

But it can't hurt...

Bob M.

[Rob Kleinschmidt]

Post by Bob Myers

Post by t***@erols.com
I use the horn to communicate. Generally, if I am forced to have to
take evasive action, it is too late for communication to do any good
at all.

But it can't hurt...

Depends on the driver.

The horn is usually way down on my list of stuff
to do when I'm busy avoiding a bad driver.

Bad drivers will often make a bad situation worse
if you alarm them by actions like slamming on the
brakes instead of hitting the gas and getting out
of your way.

In an emergency, it's only worth communicating with
someone when you expect them to be able to do
something useful.

[S'mee]

Post by Rob Kleinschmidt

Post by Bob Myers

I use the horn to communicate.  Generally, if I am forced to have to
take evasive action, it is too late for communication to do any good
at all.

But it can't hurt...

Depends on the driver.
The horn is usually way down on my list of stuff
to do when I'm busy avoiding a bad driver.
Bad drivers will often make a bad situation worse
if you alarm them by actions like  slamming on the
brakes instead of hitting the gas and getting out
of your way.
In an emergency, it's only worth communicating with
someone when you expect them to be able to do
something useful.

Or when you can't be botherd to flip the dumbass off. 8^)

[Road Glidin' Don]

Post by S'mee

Post by Rob Kleinschmidt

Post by Bob Myers

I use the horn to communicate.  Generally, if I am forced to have to
take evasive action, it is too late for communication to do any good
at all.

But it can't hurt...

Depends on the driver.
The horn is usually way down on my list of stuff
to do when I'm busy avoiding a bad driver.
Bad drivers will often make a bad situation worse
if you alarm them by actions like  slamming on the
brakes instead of hitting the gas and getting out
of your way.
In an emergency, it's only worth communicating with
someone when you expect them to be able to do
something useful.

Or when you can't be botherd to flip the dumbass off. 8^)

Or maybe you could text 'em.

[S'mee]

Post by S'mee

Post by Rob Kleinschmidt

Post by Bob Myers

I use the horn to communicate.  Generally, if I am forced to have to
take evasive action, it is too late for communication to do any good
at all.

But it can't hurt...

Depends on the driver.
The horn is usually way down on my list of stuff
to do when I'm busy avoiding a bad driver.
Bad drivers will often make a bad situation worse
if you alarm them by actions like  slamming on the
brakes instead of hitting the gas and getting out
of your way.
In an emergency, it's only worth communicating with
someone when you expect them to be able to do
something useful.

Or when you can't be botherd to flip the dumbass off. 8^)

Or maybe you could text 'em.- Hide quoted text -

What's that? Are you suggesting I throw books at cars?
--
Keith

[Road Glidin' Don]

On Tue, 27 May 2008 20:47:07 -0700 (PDT), "S'mee"

Post by S'mee

Post by S'mee

Post by Rob Kleinschmidt

Post by Bob Myers

I use the horn to communicate.  Generally, if I am forced to have to
take evasive action, it is too late for communication to do any good
at all.

But it can't hurt...

Depends on the driver.
The horn is usually way down on my list of stuff
to do when I'm busy avoiding a bad driver.
Bad drivers will often make a bad situation worse
if you alarm them by actions like  slamming on the
brakes instead of hitting the gas and getting out
of your way.
In an emergency, it's only worth communicating with
someone when you expect them to be able to do
something useful.

Or when you can't be botherd to flip the dumbass off. 8^)

Or maybe you could text 'em.- Hide quoted text -

What's that? Are you suggesting I throw books at cars?

No, no, NO!!! Then they'll start reading them while they're driving!

[t***@erols.com]

Post by Road Glidin' Don
On Tue, 27 May 2008 20:47:07 -0700 (PDT), "S'mee"

Post by S'mee

Post by S'mee

Post by Rob Kleinschmidt

Post by Bob Myers

I use the horn to communicate.  Generally, if I am forced to have to
take evasive action, it is too late for communication to do any good
at all.

But it can't hurt...

Depends on the driver.
The horn is usually way down on my list of stuff
to do when I'm busy avoiding a bad driver.
Bad drivers will often make a bad situation worse
if you alarm them by actions like  slamming on the
brakes instead of hitting the gas and getting out
of your way.
In an emergency, it's only worth communicating with
someone when you expect them to be able to do
something useful.

Or when you can't be botherd to flip the dumbass off. 8^)

Or maybe you could text 'em.- Hide quoted text -

What's that? Are you suggesting I throw books at cars?

No, no, NO!!!  Then they'll start reading them while they're driving!

Ya think they can READ????

[S'mee]

Post by Road Glidin' Don
On Tue, 27 May 2008 20:47:07 -0700 (PDT), "S'mee"

Post by S'mee

Post by S'mee

Post by Rob Kleinschmidt

Post by Bob Myers

I use the horn to communicate.  Generally, if I am forced to have to
take evasive action, it is too late for communication to do any good
at all.

But it can't hurt...

Depends on the driver.
The horn is usually way down on my list of stuff
to do when I'm busy avoiding a bad driver.
Bad drivers will often make a bad situation worse
if you alarm them by actions like  slamming on the
brakes instead of hitting the gas and getting out
of your way.
In an emergency, it's only worth communicating with
someone when you expect them to be able to do
something useful.

Or when you can't be botherd to flip the dumbass off. 8^)

Or maybe you could text 'em.- Hide quoted text -

What's that? Are you suggesting I throw books at cars?

No, no, NO!!!  Then they'll start reading them while they're driving!

Ya think they can READ????- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -

Judging by their reactions to road signs? Yes, but very slowly and
slow to comprehend. Well to judge by how they react at the last moment
like a herd of white tail.
--
Keith

[S'mee]

Post by Road Glidin' Don
On Tue, 27 May 2008 20:47:07 -0700 (PDT), "S'mee"

Post by S'mee

Post by S'mee

Post by Rob Kleinschmidt

Post by Bob Myers

I use the horn to communicate.  Generally, if I am forced to have to
take evasive action, it is too late for communication to do any good
at all.

But it can't hurt...

Depends on the driver.
The horn is usually way down on my list of stuff
to do when I'm busy avoiding a bad driver.
Bad drivers will often make a bad situation worse
if you alarm them by actions like  slamming on the
brakes instead of hitting the gas and getting out
of your way.
In an emergency, it's only worth communicating with
someone when you expect them to be able to do
something useful.

Or when you can't be botherd to flip the dumbass off. 8^)

Or maybe you could text 'em.- Hide quoted text -

What's that? Are you suggesting I throw books at cars?

No, no, NO!!!  Then they'll start reading them while they're driving!- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -

No great loss. Carrion eaters have to eat also. When the mess is
cleaned up we haul off the cage and recycle it into a coulple of Cub
90's.
--
Keith

[Timberwoof]

Post by Sheep
My neighbor now, he has loud pipes. The dog down the street chases
him but never chases me. He has an even louder freaking air horn.
Uses it a lot. Never sure why. I think he just likes to be
obnoxious.

He hasn't gotten over how his mommy didn't pay him enough attention when
he was a puppy.

[Thumper]

Post by Sheep

Post by Bob Myers

Post by oasysco
And now with my stock pipes on my new bike, I've noticed that I'm
using the horn a whole lot more to warn cars that I'm there - during
the daytime! I didnt use my horn near as much with my ex-loud pipe
bike.

I dunno about your, but one big difference between MY
horn and somebody else's loud pipes is that the horn
sounds only when I push the button. Loud pipes are
obnoxious all the time, and that's both the problem and
their major shortcoming as a "safety enhancement" (if
that's how someone is trying to justify them) - a CONSTANT
noise source tends to very quickly be ignored to the
extent that it can. Low-frequency sound also isn't very
easily located by listeners; if you want to make a noise that
will quickly direct people's attention toward the bike, well,
again, the horn does a much better job.
Bob M.

I have quiet pipes. I think I have a horn. Not sure it works though.
I'll check the next time I ride in about an hour.
My neighbor now, he has loud pipes. The dog down the street chases
him but never chases me. He has an even louder freaking air horn.
Uses it a lot. Never sure why. I think he just likes to be
obnoxious.
I always figure if I have time to use the horn then it's not necessary
to use it.
YOMV

On a rented Softtail, I pulled up a road in Italy, that dead ended at a
privately owned vineyard. As the road was gravel, and cat was on the back, I
was very careful about turning the behemoth around. About this time a large
brown dog lumbered out of the front and started barking at me. He was
wagging his tail, so I thought he was probably cool. I talked to him and
tried to be nice but he kept barking. Well, when I started to slowly rode
away, that fucker started biting at my ankle. Thankfully, I had brought mu
Sidi's on the trip and he couldn't get at my leg. He did tear a hole in my
jeans though.

Several weeks later, after I returned home, I noticed this funny chunk
missing off the top of the boots. I wondered where that had happened. It
didn't dawn on me until later that the Roman dog had bit the top off of my
boot.
--
Rev. Thumper Rabbitt

Minister and Prophet,
Church of Rec.Motorcycles®.

Post by Sheep
Dave (Dukes Sheep)
'07 FLHTCU NAH#2 DOF #5 SENS
"Oh bother" said Pooh, as he was connected at 14.4kps
A: Because it disturbs the logical flow of the message.
Q: Why is topposting frowned upon?

[c***@gmail.com]

Post by oasysco

Post by Timberwoof

Lots of opinions about motorcycle noise around here lately.  Here's
mine.  The problem isn't loud pipes, it's assholes with loud pipes.  
They think their pipes make them bad asses and go out of their way to
make other people uncomfortable.  They are in the minority.  Charity
rides and events like "Rolling Thunder" are full of good people with
loud pipes.  Unfortunately, a few assholes are giving them a bad name.

I usually can't tell whether someone with loud pipes actually is an
asshole or is just trying to be mistaken for one. It doesn't matter to
me: whether he's an asshole or not, the motorcycle makes too much noise.

Yeah, I agree! Who do they think they are!
Why just last weekend, the wife and I were in the cage on the far aide
of a 4 lane divided highway, ready to pull out to the other side when
all of a sudden I hear a bike coming. I can't see it, but I know it's
in the area, so i start looking and sure enough, there it comes.
A few weeks ago, I almost got nailed by a small herd of deer while
riding my bike only to find out shortly thereafter from bystanders
that my loud pipes caused the herd to shift direction at the last
moment, allowing me to skirt a tragedy.
And now with my stock pipes on my new bike, I've noticed that I'm
using the horn a whole lot more to warn cars that I'm there - during
the daytime! I didnt use my horn near as much with my ex-loud pipe
bike.
And I never blipped the throttle when stopped on the loud bike.
Just who do they think they are! Warning us they're in the area! :)-
It's like smoking; I don't care if you smoke, but I choose not to. You
want loud pipes then by all means you should have 'em as long you
don't blip them unnecessarily.
Greg

Post by Timberwoof
--
Timberwoof <me at timberwoof dot com>
faq:  http://www.timberwoof.com/motorcycle/faq.shtml
Ten Steps to Fascism:http://www.guardian.co.uk/usa/story/0,,2064157,00.html- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

problem is the smoke is being blown into innocent faces. loud pipes
ARE unnecessary.

[Tim Kreitz]

Post by Lew
Lots of opinions about motorcycle noise around here lately.

Yeah, and from what I can see, the majority of the recent threads have
been started by a single troll using multiple identities. If you guys
would ignore the threads instead of taking the bait, you'd run a much
better chance of actually anoying the troll.

I did a quick thread search on "loud pipes" and found that it is one
of the single most argued topics on Reeky since the early '90s -- the
reality of which I'm very aware, because I've been haging around here
for well over a decade. I rarely bother posting in these topics
anymore, because everything has already been said and archived. Look
up any old USENET thread on this subject and you'll see that there was
someone who believed everything you believe, expressed it loudly, and
someone who believed the exact opposite. Then the same old flame war
ensued -- yawn. Sorry, but these newer incarnations of the debate have
brought nothing new or fresh to the table, this thread included.

Are there ignorant dipsticks who sometimes ride around on ungodly loud
Harleys? Yes, plenty of them. And God bless 'em, every single one,
because what they do sounds like good old fashioned liberty to me. We
could have a lot worse to complain about in this country, and the
magnitude of the motorcycle noise issue is pretty good evidence that
we lack many real problems to consume our attention.

Cheers,

Tim Kreitz
2004 ZRX1200R
2003 ZX7R
DoD #2184
http://www.timkreitz.com

[Road Glidin' Don]

On Sun, 25 May 2008 17:20:50 -0700 (PDT), Tim Kreitz

Post by Tim Kreitz
Are there ignorant dipsticks who sometimes ride around on ungodly loud
Harleys? Yes, plenty of them. And God bless 'em, every single one,
because what they do sounds like good old fashioned liberty to me. We
could have a lot worse to complain about in this country, and the
magnitude of the motorcycle noise issue is pretty good evidence that
we lack many real problems to consume our attention.

Probably the most astute response I've read on this topic in a long
time, Tim. Thanks for at least bringing something new to this table.

[.***@see_my_sig_for_address.com]

Post by Road Glidin' Don
On Sun, 25 May 2008 17:20:50 -0700 (PDT), Tim Kreitz

Post by Tim Kreitz
Are there ignorant dipsticks who sometimes ride around on ungodly loud
Harleys? Yes, plenty of them. And God bless 'em, every single one,
because what they do sounds like good old fashioned liberty to me. We

Good old-fashioned rudeness and disrresepct for those around
you.

A guy on the next street over just got a Sportster, either
with straight pipes or no pipes, judging by the sound. When he pulls
in or out, the entire fucking neighborhood, meaning 20 - 30 + homes,
has to listen to his shit. If it's 2 AM, 20 - 30 families get woken
up.

That's not 'freedom', that's 'disrespect'.

Post by Road Glidin' Don

Post by Tim Kreitz
could have a lot worse to complain about in this country, and the
magnitude of the motorcycle noise issue is pretty good evidence that
we lack many real problems to consume our attention.

Probably the most astute response I've read on this topic in a long
time, Tim. Thanks for at least bringing something new to this table.

--
Click here every day to feed an animal that needs you today !!!
www.theanimalrescuesite.com/

Paul ( pjm @ pobox . com ) - remove spaces to email me
'Some days, it's just not worth chewing through the restraints.'
'With sufficient thrust, pigs fly just fine.'
HVAC/R program for Palm PDA's
Free demo online at www.pmilligan.net/palm/
Free 'People finder' program now at www.pmilligan.net/finder.htm

[Road Glidin' Don]

Post by .***@see_my_sig_for_address.com
A guy on the next street over just got a Sportster, either
with straight pipes or no pipes, judging by the sound. When he pulls
in or out, the entire fucking neighborhood, meaning 20 - 30 + homes,
has to listen to his shit. If it's 2 AM, 20 - 30 families get woken
up.

Yes, I think I'll stay up all night tonight thinking about that. I
wasn't aware, until now, that there are some absolute assholes in the
world.

I guess I'll now have to stop waking up the "entire fucking
neighborhood, meaning 20 - 30 + homes" at 2 AM next time.

Oh wait. I don't ever do that.

So why do people think everyone with louder-than-stock pipes should be
so sympathetic to their frustrations? They obviously never learned
people get tired of listening to those who bitch and whine because
they can't handle what no one else loses sleep over.

There will always be people like that. In a hundred years we might
have the most restrictive laws you ever imagined and, you know what?
I'll bet the same fraction of people will still be bitchin' and
whinin' just as loudly about something else anyway.

Fuck 'em if they can't take a joke. Let freedom ring.

[Michael R. Kesti]

Post by Road Glidin' Don

Post by .***@see_my_sig_for_address.com
A guy on the next street over just got a Sportster, either
with straight pipes or no pipes, judging by the sound. When he pulls
in or out, the entire fucking neighborhood, meaning 20 - 30 + homes,
has to listen to his shit. If it's 2 AM, 20 - 30 families get woken
up.

Yes, I think I'll stay up all night tonight thinking about that. I
wasn't aware, until now, that there are some absolute assholes in the
world.
I guess I'll now have to stop waking up the "entire fucking
neighborhood, meaning 20 - 30 + homes" at 2 AM next time.
Oh wait. I don't ever do that.
So why do people think everyone with louder-than-stock pipes should be
so sympathetic to their frustrations? They obviously never learned
people get tired of listening to those who bitch and whine because
they can't handle what no one else loses sleep over.
There will always be people like that. In a hundred years we might
have the most restrictive laws you ever imagined and, you know what?
I'll bet the same fraction of people will still be bitchin' and
whinin' just as loudly about something else anyway.
Fuck 'em if they can't take a joke. Let freedom ring.

That sounds good until one realizes that freedom requires responsibility.

[Thumper]

Post by Road Glidin' Don

Post by .***@see_my_sig_for_address.com
A guy on the next street over just got a Sportster, either
with straight pipes or no pipes, judging by the sound. When he pulls
in or out, the entire fucking neighborhood, meaning 20 - 30 + homes,
has to listen to his shit. If it's 2 AM, 20 - 30 families get woken
up.

Yes, I think I'll stay up all night tonight thinking about that. I
wasn't aware, until now, that there are some absolute assholes in the
world.
I guess I'll now have to stop waking up the "entire fucking
neighborhood, meaning 20 - 30 + homes" at 2 AM next time.
Oh wait. I don't ever do that.
So why do people think everyone with louder-than-stock pipes should be
so sympathetic to their frustrations? They obviously never learned
people get tired of listening to those who bitch and whine because
they can't handle what no one else loses sleep over.
There will always be people like that. In a hundred years we might
have the most restrictive laws you ever imagined and, you know what?
I'll bet the same fraction of people will still be bitchin' and
whinin' just as loudly about something else anyway.
Fuck 'em if they can't take a joke. Let freedom ring.

Yeah, I don't do that either. The guy with the Suzuki down the street, is
much more obnoxious than I am.

Thumper

[Timberwoof]

Post by Road Glidin' Don
So why do people think everyone with louder-than-stock pipes should be
so sympathetic to their frustrations? They obviously never learned
people get tired of listening to those who bitch and whine because
they can't handle what no one else loses sleep over.
There will always be people like that. In a hundred years we might
have the most restrictive laws you ever imagined and, you know what?
I'll bet the same fraction of people will still be bitchin' and
whinin' just as loudly about something else anyway.
Fuck 'em if they can't take a joke. Let freedom ring.

You have a choice about whether to read any article in this thread. If
some asshole blasts by with a loud vehicle, at whatever time of day, I
don't have a choice about whether to hear it.

And the "joke" has long ago become stale. It's not funny any more.

[Kenneth P. Turvey]

Post by Timberwoof
You have a choice about whether to read any article in this thread. If
some asshole blasts by with a loud vehicle, at whatever time of day, I
don't have a choice about whether to hear it.
And the "joke" has long ago become stale. It's not funny any more.

We have gotten pretty intolerant as a society. We don't let our
neighbors smoke. We live in neighborhoods that allow us to prevent our
neighbors from painting their houses in colors we don't like. The list
goes on and on.

I think the issue is not whether loud pipes are obnoxious, but whether
they are annoying enough to really get up in arms about. That probably
depends on the pipes, the rider, the location, and the time.

I tend to err on the side of letting people do what they want, but there
are some people who are just assholes. Sometimes you need to give them a
bit of a whack on the forehead to get them to pay attention.

[Timberwoof]

Post by Kenneth P. Turvey

Post by Timberwoof
You have a choice about whether to read any article in this thread. If
some asshole blasts by with a loud vehicle, at whatever time of day, I
don't have a choice about whether to hear it.
And the "joke" has long ago become stale. It's not funny any more.

We have gotten pretty intolerant as a society. We don't let our
neighbors smoke. We live in neighborhoods that allow us to prevent our
neighbors from painting their houses in colors we don't like. The list
goes on and on.
I think the issue is not whether loud pipes are obnoxious, but whether
they are annoying enough to really get up in arms about. That probably
depends on the pipes, the rider, the location, and the time.
I tend to err on the side of letting people do what they want, but there
are some people who are just assholes. Sometimes you need to give them a
bit of a whack on the forehead to get them to pay attention.

Why is tolerance always laid on the shoulder of people who want quiet?
Why can't we ask those with personal problems to tolerate the quiet in
their lives and quit imposing their lifestyles on others?

[Kenneth P. Turvey]

Post by Timberwoof
Why is tolerance always laid on the shoulder of people who want quiet?
Why can't we ask those with personal problems to tolerate the quiet in
their lives and quit imposing their lifestyles on others?

Because quiet doesn't supplant noise. It would be very difficult to be
so quiet it disturbs the neighbors.

Tolerance is the obligation of those that, if they weren't exercising it,
would otherwise make a hassle for those that were disturbing them.

That said, there is very little you should have to put up with within the
confines of your own home. If the noise is disturbing you there, the
other guy has crossed the line.

My opinion anyway.

[S'mee]

Post by Timberwoof
You have a choice about whether to read any article in this thread. If
some asshole blasts by with a loud vehicle, at whatever time of day, I
don't have a choice about whether to hear it.
And the "joke" has long ago become stale. It's not funny any more.

We have gotten pretty intolerant as a society.  We don't let our
neighbors smoke.  We live in neighborhoods that allow us to prevent our

Which is amusing to me because I don't claim these people as part of
society, rather they are spoilt children acting on their ongoing
issues of having no control of their lives. Spoilt brats like that
should be spanked and sent to the backyard to do chores.

neighbors from painting their houses in colors we don't like.  The list
goes on and on.

Really where is this a rule? I live in the real world or house is a
nice pub mustard yellow with a brown trim (though I'm politicing the
wife to go with a lighter shade of brown)

I think the issue is not whether loud pipes are obnoxious, but whether
they are annoying enough to really get up in arms about.  That probably
depends on the pipes, the rider, the location, and the time.  

Is it? Loud is loud no matter what time of day. I've spent most of my
life driving diesels with out mufflers or baffles and as least one
only had about 12" of exhaust stack from the turbo. I'm not digging at
you just pointing out that loud is relative. I can't tell you what
obnoxiouly loud is but I damn sure know it when I hear it.

I tend to err on the side of letting people do what they want, but there
are some people who are just assholes.  Sometimes you need to give them a
bit of a whack on the forehead to get them to pay attention.

Why? It wont do a bit of good. Trust me I've been doing it for
years...they just look at you like spotlighted deer and ask "what'd I
do?"
--
Keith
Give up, drink heavy and oil your guns.

[Turby]

On Tue, 27 May 2008 10:00:15 -0700 (PDT), "S'mee"

Post by S'mee

We have gotten pretty intolerant as a society.  We don't let our
neighbors smoke.  We live in neighborhoods that allow us to prevent our
neighbors from painting their houses in colors we don't like.  The list
goes on and on.

Really where is this a rule?

Rancho Santa Fe
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rancho_Santa_Fe,_California

"An Art Jury, a non-governmental organization, has the power to
approve or disapprove of any exterior alteration to any building,
fence, sidewalk (although no sidewalks exist outside of the downtown
area), or other structure."

Even though, "very few homes are visible from the road."

[Kenneth P. Turvey]

On Tue, 27 May 2008 10:00:15 -0700 (PDT), "S'mee"

Post by S'mee

We have gotten pretty intolerant as a society.  We don't let our
neighbors smoke.  We live in neighborhoods that allow us to prevent
our neighbors from painting their houses in colors we don't like.  The
list goes on and on.

Really where is this a rule?

The home I'm posting from right now (not my own) requires neighborhood
approval of the color if you wish to change the color of the home. There
are quite a few other rules that are of a similar stripe.

I rented a home about 10 years ago where it was illegal to park a pickup
truck on the street overnight. There weren't any driveways on our street
so you were forced to rent a parking place if you owned a pickup truck.

[Lew]

Post by Turby
On Tue, 27 May 2008 10:00:15 -0700 (PDT), "S'mee"

On May 26, 6:39 am, "Kenneth P. Turvey"

We have gotten pretty intolerant as a society.  We don't let
our neighbors smoke.  We live in neighborhoods that allow us to
prevent our neighbors from painting their houses in colors we
don't like.  The list goes on and on.

Really where is this a rule?

The home I'm posting from right now (not my own) requires
neighborhood approval of the color if you wish to change the color
of the home. There are quite a few other rules that are of a
similar stripe.
I rented a home about 10 years ago where it was illegal to park a
pickup truck on the street overnight. There weren't any driveways
on our street so you were forced to rent a parking place if you
owned a pickup truck.

I would make a distinction between oppressive government regulation
and neighborhood covenants. Covenants are decided by the people in
the neighborhood themselves and the homes are voluntarily bound to
them by the owner at the time.

I'm a big believer in tolerance and getting the government off our
backs, but take it to the extreme and you have anarchy.

[Kenneth P. Turvey]

Post by Lew
I would make a distinction between oppressive government regulation
and neighborhood covenants. Covenants are decided by the people in
the neighborhood themselves and the homes are voluntarily bound to
them by the owner at the time.

Maybe the covenants are voluntary where you are, but there are many
communities where you simply can't buy a house without agreeing to a lot
of silliness. Besides, I just brought this up as an example of how
intolerant our society has become. Loud pipes may be annoying, but maybe
we should think to ourselves when we find something annoying, "Is this
really worth getting upset about?" Most of the time the answer is "no".

Post by Lew
I'm a big believer in tolerance and getting the government off our
backs, but take it to the extreme and you have anarchy.

A bit more Anarchy would be a good thing if you ask me. In fact, I have
absolutely no fear that things will ever get to the point in my life that
leaning toward anarchy would be a bad thing.

[sleazy]

On 2008-05-28 10:58:47 -0400, "Kenneth P. Turvey"

Post by Kenneth P. Turvey
Maybe the covenants are voluntary where you are, but there are many
communities where you simply can't buy a house without agreeing to a lot
of silliness.

That's the very definition of voluntary. Don't buy them if you don't
like the rules. Spend your money on the free of restrictions homes.
No one is forcing you to pay their mortgages.

[Kenneth P. Turvey]

Post by sleazy
On 2008-05-28 10:58:47 -0400, "Kenneth P. Turvey"

Post by Kenneth P. Turvey
Maybe the covenants are voluntary where you are, but there are many
communities where you simply can't buy a house without agreeing to a
lot of silliness.

That's the very definition of voluntary. Don't buy them if you don't
like the rules. Spend your money on the free of restrictions homes. No
one is forcing you to pay their mortgages.

I'll buy that it fits the definition of voluntary, but the fact that it
is so prevalent for this to even be debatable does support my original
assertion, that we have all become quite intolerant.

It isn't just loud pipes. People think that it is OK to start raising a
fuss whenever their neighbor annoys them in the smallest way. Then they
scream for government intervention to prevent them from having to
shoulder the burden of their neighbors freedom.

[Michael R. Kesti]

Post by Kenneth P. Turvey

Post by sleazy
On 2008-05-28 10:58:47 -0400, "Kenneth P. Turvey"

Post by Kenneth P. Turvey
Maybe the covenants are voluntary where you are, but there are many
communities where you simply can't buy a house without agreeing to a
lot of silliness.

That's the very definition of voluntary. Don't buy them if you don't
like the rules. Spend your money on the free of restrictions homes. No
one is forcing you to pay their mortgages.

I'll buy that it fits the definition of voluntary, but the fact that it
is so prevalent for this to even be debatable does support my original
assertion, that we have all become quite intolerant.

Another valid conclusion is that we have all become quite inconsiderate.

Post by Kenneth P. Turvey
It isn't just loud pipes. People think that it is OK to start raising a
fuss whenever their neighbor annoys them in the smallest way. Then they
scream for government intervention to prevent them from having to
shoulder the burden of their neighbors freedom.

[Kenneth P. Turvey]

Post by Michael R. Kesti

Post by Kenneth P. Turvey
I'll buy that it fits the definition of voluntary, but the fact that it
is so prevalent for this to even be debatable does support my original
assertion, that we have all become quite intolerant.

Another valid conclusion is that we have all become quite inconsiderate.

If you think that painting your house a color your neighbor doesn't
approve of is inconsiderate, then I guess we have.

I personally find this kind of reasoning ridiculous.

[.***@see_my_sig_for_address.com]

On 28 May 2008 14:58:47 GMT, "Kenneth P. Turvey"

Post by Kenneth P. Turvey

Post by Lew
I would make a distinction between oppressive government regulation
and neighborhood covenants. Covenants are decided by the people in
the neighborhood themselves and the homes are voluntarily bound to
them by the owner at the time.

Maybe the covenants are voluntary where you are, but there are many
communities where you simply can't buy a house without agreeing to a lot
of silliness.

And it is your choice to buy there or not, thus it is
voluntary.

Post by Kenneth P. Turvey
Besides, I just brought this up as an example of how
intolerant our society has become. Loud pipes may be annoying, but maybe
we should think to ourselves when we find something annoying, "Is this
really worth getting upset about?" Most of the time the answer is "no".

Post by Lew
I'm a big believer in tolerance and getting the government off our
backs, but take it to the extreme and you have anarchy.

A bit more Anarchy would be a good thing if you ask me.

No one asked you.

If you wish to speak, you must fill out form X-27-TALK in
triplicate, and submit it, along with a DNA sample, to the Department
of Free Speech during normal business hours.

We will either aprove or disapprove your request within 6
months.


In fact, I have

Post by Kenneth P. Turvey
absolutely no fear that things will ever get to the point in my life that
leaning toward anarchy would be a bad thing.

--
Click here every day to feed an animal that needs you today !!!
www.theanimalrescuesite.com/

Paul ( pjm @ pobox . com ) - remove spaces to email me
'Some days, it's just not worth chewing through the restraints.'
'With sufficient thrust, pigs fly just fine.'
HVAC/R program for Palm PDA's
Free demo online at www.pmilligan.net/palm/
Free 'People finder' program now at www.pmilligan.net/finder.htm

[Kenneth P. Turvey]

Post by .***@see_my_sig_for_address.com
If you wish to speak, you must fill out form X-27-TALK in
triplicate, and submit it, along with a DNA sample, to the Department of
Free Speech during normal business hours.
We will either aprove or disapprove your request within 6
months.

I'm still working on my request for permission to paint my house purple.

[.***@see_my_sig_for_address.com]

On 28 May 2008 16:51:37 GMT, "Kenneth P. Turvey"

Post by Kenneth P. Turvey

Post by .***@see_my_sig_for_address.com
If you wish to speak, you must fill out form X-27-TALK in
triplicate, and submit it, along with a DNA sample, to the Department of
Free Speech during normal business hours.
We will either aprove or disapprove your request within 6
months.

I'm still working on my request for permission to paint my house purple.

Different department. Please go to the end of line # 6 and
wait your turn at the window. Sorry. And have a nice day !
--
Click here every day to feed an animal that needs you today !!!
www.theanimalrescuesite.com/

Paul ( pjm @ pobox . com ) - remove spaces to email me
'Some days, it's just not worth chewing through the restraints.'
'With sufficient thrust, pigs fly just fine.'
HVAC/R program for Palm PDA's
Free demo online at www.pmilligan.net/palm/
Free 'People finder' program now at www.pmilligan.net/finder.htm

[Chuck Rhode]

Different department. Please go to the end of line # 6 and wait
your turn at the window. Sorry. And have a nice day !

I have in the past noticed a marked discrepancy between these post
office signs and the activities carried on beneath. But soft, let us
see how Dame Fortune smiles upon my next postal adventure!

[.***@see_my_sig_for_address.com]

On Wed, 28 May 2008 16:05:05 -0500, Chuck Rhode

Post by Chuck Rhode

Different department. Please go to the end of line # 6 and wait
your turn at the window. Sorry. And have a nice day !

I have in the past noticed a marked discrepancy between these post
office signs and the activities carried on beneath. But soft, let us
see how Dame Fortune smiles upon my next postal adventure!

We're sorry, Window # 6 is now closed for the day. Please
return tomorrow after 9:00 AM.
--
Click here every day to feed an animal that needs you today !!!
www.theanimalrescuesite.com/

Paul ( pjm @ pobox . com ) - remove spaces to email me
'Some days, it's just not worth chewing through the restraints.'
'With sufficient thrust, pigs fly just fine.'
HVAC/R program for Palm PDA's
Free demo online at www.pmilligan.net/palm/
Free 'People finder' program now at www.pmilligan.net/finder.htm

[S'mee]

On May 28, 10:51 am, "Kenneth P. Turvey" <kt-

Post by Kenneth P. Turvey

   If you wish to speak, you must fill out form X-27-TALK in
triplicate, and submit it, along with a DNA sample, to the Department of
Free  Speech during normal business hours.
   We will either aprove or disapprove your request within 6
months.

I'm still working on my request for permission to paint my house purple.

Well if you aren't living in a facist enclave where your house is
dictated to you along wiht your lawn. Paint away, I've seen some done
in a nice lilac with brick red trim...no really it looked pretty nice.
--
Keith

[S'mee]

Post by .***@see_my_sig_for_address.com
On 28 May 2008 14:58:47 GMT, "Kenneth P. Turvey"

Post by Kenneth P. Turvey

Post by Lew
I would make a distinction between oppressive government regulation
and neighborhood covenants.  Covenants are decided by the people in
the neighborhood themselves and the homes are voluntarily bound to
them by the owner at the time.

Maybe the covenants are voluntary where you are, but there are many
communities where you simply can't buy a house without agreeing to a lot
of silliness.  

        And it is your choice to buy there or not, thus it is
voluntary.

Post by Kenneth P. Turvey
Besides, I just brought this up as an example of how
intolerant our society has become.  Loud pipes may be annoying, but maybe
we should think to ourselves when we find something annoying, "Is this
really worth getting upset about?"  Most of the time the answer is "no".

Post by Lew
I'm a big believer in tolerance and getting the government off our
backs, but take it to the extreme and you have anarchy.

A bit more Anarchy would be a good thing if you ask me.

        No one asked you.
        If you wish to speak, you must fill out form X-27-TALK in
triplicate, and submit it, along with a DNA sample, to the Department
of Free  Speech during normal business hours.
        We will either aprove or disapprove your request within 6
months.

BUT to be on the commitee to make these decisions YOU have to fill out
a GSA ID-10-T form. Turn around on those is a bit long...

[S'mee]

Post by Turby
On Tue, 27 May 2008 10:00:15 -0700 (PDT), "S'mee"

Post by S'mee

We have gotten pretty intolerant as a society.  We don't let our
neighbors smoke.  We live in neighborhoods that allow us to prevent
our neighbors from painting their houses in colors we don't like.  The
list goes on and on.

Really where is this a rule?

The home I'm posting from right now (not my own) requires neighborhood
approval of the color if you wish to change the color of the home.  There
are quite a few other rules that are of a similar stripe.
I rented a home about 10 years ago where it was illegal to park a pickup
truck on the street overnight.  There weren't any driveways on our street
so you were forced to rent a parking place if you owned a pickup truck.  

Park in the yard. Then again I can not IMAGINE living with such
restrictive covenants and laws. I just can't it's too fascist/
socialist for me. Controling people have no place in the world.
--
Keith

[S'mee]

Post by Turby
On Tue, 27 May 2008 10:00:15 -0700 (PDT), "S'mee"

Post by S'mee

We have gotten pretty intolerant as a society.  We don't let our
neighbors smoke.  We live in neighborhoods that allow us to prevent our
neighbors from painting their houses in colors we don't like.  The list
goes on and on.

Really where is this a rule?

Rancho Santa Fehttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rancho_Santa_Fe,_California
"An Art Jury, a non-governmental organization, has the power to
approve or disapprove of any exterior alteration to any building,
fence, sidewalk (although no sidewalks exist outside of the downtown
area), or other structure."
Even though, "very few homes are visible from the road."

Art just? So? Intellgent people ignore self important twits like that.
I've yet to have a NGO make me do anything.
paperpaperpaperetcetcetcyaddayaddayaddayadd now piss off and off they
go. I also new of a person that messed with THEIR paper work and make
it look like they've "manipulated the information"...he hated the
morons in his gated community.
--
Keith

[Turby]

On Wed, 28 May 2008 08:10:10 -0700 (PDT), "S'mee"

Post by S'mee

Post by Turby
On Tue, 27 May 2008 10:00:15 -0700 (PDT), "S'mee"

Post by S'mee

We have gotten pretty intolerant as a society.  We don't let our
neighbors smoke.  We live in neighborhoods that allow us to prevent our
neighbors from painting their houses in colors we don't like.  The list
goes on and on.

Really where is this a rule?

Rancho Santa Fehttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rancho_Santa_Fe,_California
"An Art Jury, a non-governmental organization, has the power to
approve or disapprove of any exterior alteration to any building,
fence, sidewalk (although no sidewalks exist outside of the downtown
area), or other structure."
Even though, "very few homes are visible from the road."

Art just? So? Intellgent people ignore self important twits like that.
I've yet to have a NGO make me do anything.
paperpaperpaperetcetcetcyaddayaddayaddayadd now piss off and off they
go. I also new of a person that messed with THEIR paper work and make
it look like they've "manipulated the information"...he hated the
morons in his gated community.

I find it interesting. The people who live in RSF or the 17 Mile Drive
are mostly very successful people, people who have achieved success
because of their unique talents. It's a bit incongruous that they
would voluntarily relinquish power over their own homes. Nobody who
moves there is caught unaware, though.

[Rob Kleinschmidt]

Post by Turby
I find it interesting. The people who live in RSF or the 17 Mile Drive
are mostly very successful people, people who have achieved success
because of their unique talents. It's a bit incongruous that they
would voluntarily relinquish power over their own homes. Nobody who
moves there is caught unaware, though.

Interestingly, I was talking to somebody who recently
went through a knockdown dragout fight regarding
views and covenants. It apparantly turned into
some treecutting on the sneak and legal actions.

Personally, I want to move to a community where
everybody but me is subject to restrictive covenants.

Going back to loud pipes for a moment, is there
anything more stupid looking than some clown
chugging away from a stopsign at 120 dB and
25 mph ?

[S'mee]

On May 28, 2:43 pm, Rob Kleinschmidt <***@aol.com> wrote:

SNIP

No thanks I wouldn't want to be king.

Post by Rob Kleinschmidt
Going back to loud pipes for a moment, is there
anything more stupid looking than some clown
chugging away from a stopsign at 120 dB and
25 mph ?

Yes there is a whole gaggle of them.
--
Keith

[Timberwoof]

Post by Turby
On Wed, 28 May 2008 08:10:10 -0700 (PDT), "S'mee"

Post by S'mee

Post by Turby
On Tue, 27 May 2008 10:00:15 -0700 (PDT), "S'mee"

Post by S'mee

We have gotten pretty intolerant as a society.  We don't let our
neighbors smoke.  We live in neighborhoods that allow us to prevent our
neighbors from painting their houses in colors we don't like.  The list
goes on and on.

Really where is this a rule?

Rancho Santa Fehttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rancho_Santa_Fe,_California
"An Art Jury, a non-governmental organization, has the power to
approve or disapprove of any exterior alteration to any building,
fence, sidewalk (although no sidewalks exist outside of the downtown
area), or other structure."
Even though, "very few homes are visible from the road."

Art just? So? Intellgent people ignore self important twits like that.
I've yet to have a NGO make me do anything.
paperpaperpaperetcetcetcyaddayaddayaddayadd now piss off and off they
go. I also new of a person that messed with THEIR paper work and make
it look like they've "manipulated the information"...he hated the
morons in his gated community.

I find it interesting. The people who live in RSF or the 17 Mile Drive
are mostly very successful people, people who have achieved success
because of their unique talents. It's a bit incongruous that they
would voluntarily relinquish power over their own homes. Nobody who
moves there is caught unaware, though.

It's not just a matter of relinquishing power over your own home, it's
having power over your neighbor's. Neighborhood covenants are intended
to keep neighborhoods "nice" and prevent someone from building some
monstrosity that's ugly to look at or will lower your property values.

Given that land use is already governed by zoning for residential,
commercial, industrial, agricultural, and so forth uses -- which
prevents someone building a uranium-reprocessing plant next door to your
house -- neighborhood covenants are not unreasonable.

[Kenneth P. Turvey]

Post by Timberwoof
Given that land use is already governed by zoning for residential,
commercial, industrial, agricultural, and so forth uses -- which
prevents someone building a uranium-reprocessing plant next door to your
house -- neighborhood covenants are not unreasonable.

To me they are. I've only purchased a single house and I made sure that
I didn't have to agree to any covenants of any kind.

I also not happy about the zoning laws, but then I'm in a minority.

Why exactly can't I sell carpet out of my garage or fix computers in my
basement?

[St. John Smythe]

Post by Kenneth P. Turvey
Why exactly can't I sell carpet out of my garage or fix computers in my
basement?

I expect the main reason for that in most neighborhoods is the
likelihood of excessive traffic. Note that I didn't say I agreed with
it, I'm just sayin...

[.***@see_my_sig_for_address.com]

On 29 May 2008 01:29:58 GMT, "Kenneth P. Turvey"

Post by Kenneth P. Turvey

Post by Timberwoof
Given that land use is already governed by zoning for residential,
commercial, industrial, agricultural, and so forth uses -- which
prevents someone building a uranium-reprocessing plant next door to your
house -- neighborhood covenants are not unreasonable.

To me they are. I've only purchased a single house and I made sure that
I didn't have to agree to any covenants of any kind.
I also not happy about the zoning laws, but then I'm in a minority.
Why exactly can't I sell carpet out of my garage or fix computers in my
basement?

A ) your garage is not carpeted, and B ) you don't have a
basement.

Just a wild guess .....
--
Click here every day to feed an animal that needs you today !!!
www.theanimalrescuesite.com/

Paul ( pjm @ pobox . com ) - remove spaces to email me
'Some days, it's just not worth chewing through the restraints.'
'With sufficient thrust, pigs fly just fine.'
HVAC/R program for Palm PDA's
Free demo online at www.pmilligan.net/palm/
Free 'People finder' program now at www.pmilligan.net/finder.htm

[n***@gmail.com]

I've run straights before... but I have an excuse .. I was in my late
teens/early 20s and did drugs.. Not sure about the Old Farts running
straights.. I just wanted to add an experience...

I'm at the Dunkin Donuts in Bangor, ME and there's about 10 Harleys
across the Parking lot (mighta been a couple of Metric V-Twins but I
don't think so)... All of them are running straights or pretty close
to it... They decide to go for their usual 1/2 mile road trip through
town and back... One of them starts reving his motor.. then another...
then all of them... I'm not talking blipping here... just holding them
close to wide open..just before hitting the rev limiter... This went
on for at least 5 minutes straight... The biggest surprize was the
cops didn't show up because if there was any within 2 square miles
they would have heard it or that none of them blew a motor, ... This
was about 6:00PM.. it was still light out... Now I'm not a prude and
ran Harleys for years and have been to several MC rallys over the
years... But this was thee most obnoxiuos display I have ever seen and
was embarrassed to be on a Motorcycle there. They left and did their
little loop through town.. making as much noise as possible and pulled
back into DD... I choked down the rest of my hot coffee and saddled up
for the 30 mile ride home.

Maineac

[S'mee]

Post by Timberwoof

Post by Turby
On Wed, 28 May 2008 08:10:10 -0700 (PDT), "S'mee"

Post by S'mee

Post by Turby
On Tue, 27 May 2008 10:00:15 -0700 (PDT), "S'mee"

Post by S'mee

We have gotten pretty intolerant as a society.  We don't let our
neighbors smoke.  We live in neighborhoods that allow us to prevent our
neighbors from painting their houses in colors we don't like.  The list
goes on and on.

Really where is this a rule?

Rancho Santa Fehttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rancho_Santa_Fe,_California
"An Art Jury, a non-governmental organization, has the power to
approve or disapprove of any exterior alteration to any building,
fence, sidewalk (although no sidewalks exist outside of the downtown
area), or other structure."
Even though, "very few homes are visible from the road."

Art just? So? Intellgent people ignore self important twits like that.
I've yet to have a NGO make me do anything.
paperpaperpaperetcetcetcyaddayaddayaddayadd now piss off and off they
go. I also new of a person that messed with THEIR paper work and make
it look like they've "manipulated the information"...he hated the
morons in his gated community.

I find it interesting. The people who live in RSF or the 17 Mile Drive
are mostly very successful people, people who have achieved success
because of their unique talents. It's a bit incongruous that they
would voluntarily relinquish power over their own homes. Nobody who
moves there is caught unaware, though.

It's not just a matter of relinquishing power over your own home, it's
having power over your neighbor's. Neighborhood covenants are intended
to keep neighborhoods "nice" and prevent someone from building some
monstrosity that's ugly to look at or will lower your property values.

Funny that, you mean to say if I bought a vacant lot with plethora of
houses around in the 4-6million range and I built a three story
victorian house from original plans and the only updating was to bring
it into code (while keeping those 12' ceilings) Had it painted exactly
the way they used to paint them (explosion in paint factory not solid
white stepford bitch look) You are saying that the neighbors would
find it ugly? Inspite of the gardens? etc? What bunch of philistines!
No wonder I dislike 90% of H. Sapiens.

Post by Timberwoof
Given that land use is already governed by zoning for residential,
commercial, industrial, agricultural, and so forth uses -- which
prevents someone building a uranium-reprocessing plant next door to your
house -- neighborhood covenants are not unreasonable.

Why should your neghbor have the same power if not more than the
government that is insane.
--
Keith

[S'mee]

Post by Turby
On Wed, 28 May 2008 08:10:10 -0700 (PDT), "S'mee"

Post by S'mee

Post by Turby
On Tue, 27 May 2008 10:00:15 -0700 (PDT), "S'mee"

Post by S'mee

We have gotten pretty intolerant as a society.  We don't let our
neighbors smoke.  We live in neighborhoods that allow us to prevent our
neighbors from painting their houses in colors we don't like.  The list
goes on and on.

Really where is this a rule?

Rancho Santa Fehttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rancho_Santa_Fe,_California
"An Art Jury, a non-governmental organization, has the power to
approve or disapprove of any exterior alteration to any building,
fence, sidewalk (although no sidewalks exist outside of the downtown
area), or other structure."
Even though, "very few homes are visible from the road."

Art just? So? Intellgent people ignore self important twits like that.
I've yet to have a NGO make me do anything.
paperpaperpaperetcetcetcyaddayaddayaddayadd now piss off and off they
go. I also new of a person that messed with THEIR paper work and make
it look like they've "manipulated the information"...he hated the
morons in his gated community.

I find it interesting. The people who live in RSF or the 17 Mile Drive
are mostly very successful people, people who have achieved success
because of their unique talents. It's a bit incongruous that they
would voluntarily relinquish power over their own homes. Nobody who
moves there is caught unaware, though.
--
Turby the Turbosurfer- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -

How can you have freedom if you have no power over your own property.
(felines notwithstanding)
--
Keith

[.***@see_my_sig_for_address.com]

Post by Road Glidin' Don

Post by .***@see_my_sig_for_address.com
A guy on the next street over just got a Sportster, either
with straight pipes or no pipes, judging by the sound. When he pulls
in or out, the entire fucking neighborhood, meaning 20 - 30 + homes,
has to listen to his shit. If it's 2 AM, 20 - 30 families get woken
up.

Yes, I think I'll stay up all night tonight thinking about that. I
wasn't aware, until now, that there are some absolute assholes in the
world.
I guess I'll now have to stop waking up the "entire fucking
neighborhood, meaning 20 - 30 + homes" at 2 AM next time.
Oh wait. I don't ever do that.

Then perhaps you don't have the kind of 'loud pipes' that guy
does.

Put it this way - he lives ~ 300 feet away from me, and my
windows rattle when he revs it. That's too fucking loud.

Post by Road Glidin' Don
So why do people think everyone with louder-than-stock pipes should be
so sympathetic to their frustrations? They obviously never learned
people get tired of listening to those who bitch and whine because
they can't handle what no one else loses sleep over.

A few dozen people getting woken up and being displeased about
it is not 'bitching and whining'.

Pipes that are loud enough to disturb the entire neighborhood
are not 'a rider safety device'.

Post by Road Glidin' Don
There will always be people like that. In a hundred years we might
have the most restrictive laws you ever imagined and, you know what?
I'll bet the same fraction of people will still be bitchin' and
whinin' just as loudly about something else anyway.

100 years from now, the only thing I'll be bitching about is
the worms, if that much :-)

Post by Road Glidin' Don
Fuck 'em if they can't take a joke. Let freedom ring.

Quietly :-)

BTW - speaking of 'freedom' - try publishing a cartoon in your
country that shows Mohamed doing something non-islamic - sharing a
beer with a hot nekid babe, for instance - , and see how much
'freedom' you have when your 'Civil Rights Panel' comes a'knockin.
--
Click here every day to feed an animal that needs you today !!!
www.theanimalrescuesite.com/

Paul ( pjm @ pobox . com ) - remove spaces to email me
'Some days, it's just not worth chewing through the restraints.'
'With sufficient thrust, pigs fly just fine.'
HVAC/R program for Palm PDA's
Free demo online at www.pmilligan.net/palm/
Free 'People finder' program now at www.pmilligan.net/finder.htm

[t***@erols.com]

        A guy on the next street over just got a Sportster

Instead of jealously whining about it on usenet, why not get even with
the guy and buy a bike yourself?

[Timberwoof]

Post by Road Glidin' Don
On Sun, 25 May 2008 17:20:50 -0700 (PDT), Tim Kreitz

Post by Tim Kreitz
Are there ignorant dipsticks who sometimes ride around on ungodly loud
Harleys? Yes, plenty of them. And God bless 'em, every single one,
because what they do sounds like good old fashioned liberty to me. We
could have a lot worse to complain about in this country, and the
magnitude of the motorcycle noise issue is pretty good evidence that
we lack many real problems to consume our attention.

Probably the most astute response I've read on this topic in a long
time, Tim. Thanks for at least bringing something new to this table.

No, it's nothing new. It's merely the old argument that making noise is
a fundamental liberty, wrapped up in the flag of patriotism.

[Who Me?]

Post by Road Glidin' Don
On Sun, 25 May 2008 17:20:50 -0700 (PDT), Tim Kreitz

Post by Tim Kreitz
And God bless 'em, every single one,
because what they do sounds like good old fashioned liberty to me. We
could have a lot worse to complain about in this country,

Probably the most astute response I've read on this topic in a long
time, Tim. Thanks for at least bringing something new to this table.

Astute....hardly. Sounds like a call for anarchy to me.

So lets do away with ALL rules about living in a civilized manner. By your
logic maybe it should be OK to pile your trash in the front yard, let weeds
grow as tall as your house and prance around naked in public. Oops, there
ARE some places like that........... ;-)

And we already DO have WAY more important things to worry about. Most of us
are just too stupid to know or care.

[dizzy]

Post by Tim Kreitz
And God bless 'em, every single one,
because what they do sounds like good old fashioned liberty to me.

Until someone else gets a painful blast in the ear, driving with
their window down...

[Thumper]

Post by dizzy

Post by Tim Kreitz
And God bless 'em, every single one,
because what they do sounds like good old fashioned liberty to me.

Until someone else gets a painful blast in the ear, driving with
their window down...

GAG cough. Never drive with your windows down. The exhaust from high
polluting vehicles is just too much. I wear a fucking mask when I ride on
the freeway.

Thumper

[.***@see_my_sig_for_address.com]

On Mon, 26 May 2008 12:53:57 -0700, "Thumper"

Post by Thumper

Post by dizzy

Post by Tim Kreitz
And God bless 'em, every single one,
because what they do sounds like good old fashioned liberty to me.

Until someone else gets a painful blast in the ear, driving with
their window down...

GAG cough. Never drive with your windows down. The exhaust from high
polluting vehicles is just too much. I wear a fucking mask when I ride on
the freeway.

You should only wear those when fucking.

Post by Thumper
Thumper

--
Click here every day to feed an animal that needs you today !!!
www.theanimalrescuesite.com/

Paul ( pjm @ pobox . com ) - remove spaces to email me
'Some days, it's just not worth chewing through the restraints.'
'With sufficient thrust, pigs fly just fine.'
HVAC/R program for Palm PDA's
Free demo online at www.pmilligan.net/palm/
Free 'People finder' program now at www.pmilligan.net/finder.htm