Discussion:
metrics and harleys
(too old to reply)
avgardbaer
2006-03-24 19:41:16 UTC
Permalink
I have recently purchased a 2005 Yamaha Roadstar instead of a Harley.
I used to own two Harleys back when you paid for what it was worth. I
did not buy a Roadstar because I couldnt afford a Harley either. I
could afford to bu 10 if I wanted to. The bottom line is that the
metric bike has better balance, more tourque, more horsepower, 9 inches
over the biggest stock harley wheel base providing a better ride and
doesnt vibrate until parts start falling off of it like even the newest
of harley models (ie Street Glide).

They offer a six year warranty with maintenance included for under a
grand. that says something for the reliabilityt of the bike. So for
six years all i pay for is tires and brakes. I put 10,000 miles on the
mike in less then six months without even a hickup.

I was able to easily do the same kind of personalization to the bike
you would do on a Harley like new pipes, chrome, etc for less money as
well.

All in all, the look, the handling, the sound (vance and hines), the
power and general experience are superior to all the new model harleys
I have ridden. The price difference for something comparable in a
harley is about 8K. Im putting that towards a new touring bike and it
will be a gold wing. So i will own two bikes for two differnt types of
riding..

Some people say, well its not made in the USA. On the contrary, it was
made in the USA. If you look at your Harley see how many parts are
really made overseas. About half.

The bottom line is that when u buy a Harley you are buying years of
Marketing and generated mystique about a bike that by todays standards
is inferior to most other brands on the market from a dollar to value
standpoint.

So the general snottiness from most harley owners towards metric bikes
is generally due to ignorance and falling for a genius of a marketing
scheme thats grown over years. I have met very few harley dudes that
put down metrics that actually ever drove one.

Just my thoughts. Its a free country. if a harley person wants to pay
more for less its there god given right.
James_
2006-03-24 20:10:20 UTC
Permalink
Post by avgardbaer
The bottom line is that when u buy a Harley you are buying years of
Marketing and generated mystique about a bike that by todays standards
is inferior to most other brands on the market from a dollar to value
standpoint.
So the general snottiness from most harley owners towards metric bikes
is generally due to ignorance and falling for a genius of a marketing
scheme thats grown over years. I have met very few harley dudes that
put down metrics that actually ever drove one.
Just my thoughts. Its a free country. if a harley person wants to pay
more for less its there god given right.
I agree. I bought a Harley FXDI as my first bike, and after learning more about
H-D, felt suckered and stupid for doing so. Even with the Stage I kit on it,
performance wasn't that great. I fell for the marketing. Lesson learned, so I
sold it. What amazed me, as I was sitting there buying it, is how they attempt
to bend you over after buying the bike. They offered me a service plan where I
paid a set amount for the next 'n' services. I added up the next individual 'n'
services, and it cost less than their package. I brought this up to the guy, and
he is like, "oh really!?..." Harley dealers remind me of american cars dealers
of the 70s and 80s. Sleazy asses.

After some experimenting, I have found that I prefer sport/touring type of bikes
anyway. I just recently bought a new '06 Kaw z750s. Then right after I bought
it, it has snowed all week :( but looks like some 40+ degree days are coming up
soon like this weekend.
Ari Rankum
2006-03-25 00:33:18 UTC
Permalink
Post by James_
Post by avgardbaer
The bottom line is that when u buy a Harley you are buying years of
Marketing and generated mystique about a bike that by todays standards
is inferior to most other brands on the market from a dollar to value
standpoint.
So the general snottiness from most harley owners towards metric bikes
is generally due to ignorance and falling for a genius of a marketing
scheme thats grown over years. I have met very few harley dudes that
put down metrics that actually ever drove one.
Just my thoughts. Its a free country. if a harley person wants to pay
more for less its there god given right.
I agree. I bought a Harley FXDI as my first bike, and after learning more about
H-D, felt suckered and stupid for doing so. Even with the Stage I kit on it,
performance wasn't that great.
Bah! Harley-Davidsons are *great*! I love having Harleys around. My
favorite Harley moment came after following some dude at Simon and
Garfunkel "Feeling Groovy" sorts of speeds for what seemed like miles
through the twisties. He was on a 1200cc twin that was all
bladah-bladah. I was on a shameful and quiet rice burning 700cc ferrin
made piece of shit.

I knew the road well, and so, apparently, did he. We came through the
'S', "Feeling Groovy" and what not, hit the hard right turn, and then
the broken yellow line and a quarter mile of straightaway. Suddenly,
his bladah-bladah erupted into a most obnoxious gasoline-to-noise
converting howl. By golly, for some reason, this Simon and Garfunkel
fan suddenly wanted to ride a lot faster, right at the passing
opportunity. By the sound level, I'd say all 43 HP were being used to
turn octane into decibels. As I quietly blew right by him and he
disappeared in my rearviews, I realized that Harleys and their riders
can *often* make your day.
w***@netscape.net
2006-03-24 20:47:19 UTC
Permalink
Post by avgardbaer
I have recently purchased a 2005 Yamaha Roadstar instead of a Harley.
I used to own two Harleys back when you paid for what it was worth. I
did not buy a Roadstar because I couldnt afford a Harley either. I
could afford to bu 10 if I wanted to. The bottom line is that the
metric bike has better balance, more tourque, more horsepower, 9 inches
over the biggest stock harley wheel base providing a better ride and
doesnt vibrate until parts start falling off of it like even the newest
of harley models (ie Street Glide).
They offer a six year warranty with maintenance included for under a
grand. that says something for the reliabilityt of the bike. So for
six years all i pay for is tires and brakes. I put 10,000 miles on the
mike in less then six months without even a hickup.
I was able to easily do the same kind of personalization to the bike
you would do on a Harley like new pipes, chrome, etc for less money as
well.
All in all, the look, the handling, the sound (vance and hines), the
power and general experience are superior to all the new model harleys
I have ridden. The price difference for something comparable in a
harley is about 8K. Im putting that towards a new touring bike and it
will be a gold wing. So i will own two bikes for two differnt types of
riding..
Some people say, well its not made in the USA. On the contrary, it was
made in the USA. If you look at your Harley see how many parts are
really made overseas. About half.
The bottom line is that when u buy a Harley you are buying years of
Marketing and generated mystique about a bike that by todays standards
is inferior to most other brands on the market from a dollar to value
standpoint.
So the general snottiness from most harley owners towards metric bikes
is generally due to ignorance and falling for a genius of a marketing
scheme thats grown over years. I have met very few harley dudes that
put down metrics that actually ever drove one.
Just my thoughts. Its a free country. if a harley person wants to pay
more for less its there god given right.
Didnt you really mean to post this in rec.motorcycles.harley ?????


Billy
sqidbait
2006-03-24 21:08:43 UTC
Permalink
Post by avgardbaer
I have recently purchased a 2005 Yamaha Roadstar instead of a Harley.
[snip]
Post by avgardbaer
Just my thoughts. Its a free country. if a harley person wants to pay
more for less its there god given right.
Not bad, although the Lithuanian judge only gave you a 6.2.

-- Michael
Rayvan
2006-03-24 21:35:57 UTC
Permalink
Post by avgardbaer
I have recently purchased a 2005 Yamaha Roadstar instead of a Harley.
I used to own two Harleys back when you paid for what it was worth. I
did not buy a Roadstar because I couldnt afford a Harley either. I
could afford to bu 10 if I wanted to. The bottom line is that the
metric bike has better balance, more tourque, more horsepower, 9 inches
over the biggest stock harley wheel base providing a better ride and
doesnt vibrate until parts start falling off of it like even the newest
of harley models (ie Street Glide).
They offer a six year warranty with maintenance included for under a
grand. that says something for the reliabilityt of the bike. So for
six years all i pay for is tires and brakes. I put 10,000 miles on the
mike in less then six months without even a hickup.
I was able to easily do the same kind of personalization to the bike
you would do on a Harley like new pipes, chrome, etc for less money as
well.
All in all, the look, the handling, the sound (vance and hines), the
power and general experience are superior to all the new model harleys
I have ridden. The price difference for something comparable in a
harley is about 8K. Im putting that towards a new touring bike and it
will be a gold wing. So i will own two bikes for two differnt types of
riding..
Some people say, well its not made in the USA. On the contrary, it was
made in the USA. If you look at your Harley see how many parts are
really made overseas. About half.
The bottom line is that when u buy a Harley you are buying years of
Marketing and generated mystique about a bike that by todays standards
is inferior to most other brands on the market from a dollar to value
standpoint.
Hey RGD, Check this out:
Last Oct. you wrote sort of a "template" on why many metric cruiser
owners need to post the (above) type of message here:

Avgardbaer's post fits the template perfectly:

The rationale for many metric cruisier owners depends on
generating the perception that Harleys are not reliable,
well made motorcycles.

Further:

The poster's "point" is *so* very conflicted. In a bazar, mixed-up
way, he *needs* Harleys to be no good - instinctively knowing that
if Harleys are *not* crap, it raises some questions as to why he is
riding an imitation. IOW, His reasoning sounds so much better if
Harleys are totally unreliable.

Very Interesting! You hit the nail on the head with this guy!
--
Rayvan
_Bob Nixon_
2006-03-25 01:42:44 UTC
Permalink
Post by Rayvan
Post by avgardbaer
I have recently purchased a 2005 Yamaha Roadstar instead of a Harley.
I used to own two Harleys back when you paid for what it was worth. I
did not buy a Roadstar because I couldnt afford a Harley either. I
could afford to bu 10 if I wanted to. The bottom line is that the
metric bike has better balance, more tourque, more horsepower, 9 inches
over the biggest stock harley wheel base providing a better ride and
doesnt vibrate until parts start falling off of it like even the newest
of harley models (ie Street Glide).
They offer a six year warranty with maintenance included for under a
grand. that says something for the reliabilityt of the bike. So for
six years all i pay for is tires and brakes. I put 10,000 miles on the
mike in less then six months without even a hickup.
I was able to easily do the same kind of personalization to the bike
you would do on a Harley like new pipes, chrome, etc for less money as
well.
All in all, the look, the handling, the sound (vance and hines), the
power and general experience are superior to all the new model harleys
I have ridden. The price difference for something comparable in a
harley is about 8K. Im putting that towards a new touring bike and it
will be a gold wing. So i will own two bikes for two differnt types of
riding..
Some people say, well its not made in the USA. On the contrary, it was
made in the USA. If you look at your Harley see how many parts are
really made overseas. About half.
The bottom line is that when u buy a Harley you are buying years of
Marketing and generated mystique about a bike that by todays standards
is inferior to most other brands on the market from a dollar to value
standpoint.
Last Oct. you wrote sort of a "template" on why many metric cruiser
The rationale for many metric cruisier owners depends on
generating the perception that Harleys are not reliable,
well made motorcycles.
The poster's "point" is *so* very conflicted. In a bazar, mixed-up
way, he *needs* Harleys to be no good - instinctively knowing that
if Harleys are *not* crap, it raises some questions as to why he is
riding an imitation. IOW, His reasoning sounds so much better if
Harleys are totally unreliable.
Very Interesting! You hit the nail on the head with this guy!
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

No, Rayvan, you're just a dumb ass that wouldn't know a good bike (VFR)
if it came up and bit you on your ass;) You're so caught up in the whole
Hardley Abelson game that you forgot there were other and lot's better
bike out there. BTW, why not spend your USENET hours over in RMH where
folks actually give a rat's pattotie about the whole HD "lifestyle;
greasy jeans. beard, pot belly, straight pipes, bustin' pool cues &
especially that wannabee bag ass 1%ers virtual bar thing?


Bob Nixon
01 Sprint ST "RED" 52K
Chandler,AZ
http://bigrex.net/pictures
Bob Mann
2006-03-25 01:45:52 UTC
Permalink
Post by _Bob Nixon_
No, Rayvan, you're just a dumb ass that wouldn't know a good bike (VFR)
if it came up and bit you on your ass;) You're so caught up in the whole
Hardley Abelson game that you forgot there were other and lot's better
bike out there. BTW, why not spend your USENET hours over in RMH where
folks actually give a rat's pattotie about the whole HD "lifestyle;
greasy jeans. beard, pot belly, straight pipes, bustin' pool cues &
especially that wannabee bag ass 1%ers virtual bar thing?
Having fun Bob?
Rayvan
2006-03-25 04:30:00 UTC
Permalink
Post by Bob Mann
Post by _Bob Nixon_
No, Rayvan, you're just a dumb ass that wouldn't know a good bike (VFR)
if it came up and bit you on your ass;) You're so caught up in the whole
Hardley Abelson game that you forgot there were other and lot's better
bike out there. BTW, why not spend your USENET hours over in RMH where
folks actually give a rat's pattotie about the whole HD "lifestyle;
greasy jeans. beard, pot belly, straight pipes, bustin' pool cues &
especially that wannabee bag ass 1%ers virtual bar thing?
Having fun Bob?
I think he is. Unfortunatley, even though I've got him in the twit
filter I can still see bits of his posts when someone else replys to
him and copies his text as you have done. It appears he's been acting
like a teenager who's parents are gone for the weekend. He's really
gone off the deep-end now. What a shame.
I do believe Snob is secretly attracted to people who ride Harleys.
He's obviously *very* obsessed with me (I'm flattered, but he's just
not my type).
If one were to perform a google NG search on "Nixon Harley" they'll
find out just how very obssesed he is. It would actually do wonders for
his image if he simply killfiled anyone who owns a Harley or even *all*
cruiser owners, but then he wouldn't have anything to talk about at
all. His life is so shallow and empty. A sad, sad little 'man' he is. I
pity him.
--
Rayvan
Wrecked '03 Superhawk is on it's way to my garage this weekend.
Whoohoo! The next in what have been a long line of poor, neglected
motoryclces I've rescued and put back on the road!
BJayKana
2006-03-28 18:04:19 UTC
Permalink
Hey Rayvan''why not spend your USENET hours over in RMH where folks
actually give a rat's pattotie about the whole HD "lifestyle; greasy
jeans. beard, pot belly, straight pipes, bustin' pool cues & especially
that wannabee bag ass 1%ers virtual bar thing?
Bob Nixon
01 Sprint ST "RED" 52K)_

~~~False impression. I know a dozen Harley riders, and they are far from
the 1% fellers. Now, I don't know Mr. Rayvan, he might claim to be an
''outlaw type'' like was described above. I know a doctor and a lawyer,
who on the weekends, ride their Harleys and try to look Bad, like
described above. shoot, I try looking bad, and I ride uh Honda. heh
hehe. Bjay_

'Ya'll take care'' --BJAY--
.***@see_my_sig_for_address.com
2006-03-28 18:27:29 UTC
Permalink
Post by BJayKana
Hey Rayvan''why not spend your USENET hours over in RMH where folks
actually give a rat's pattotie about the whole HD "lifestyle; greasy
jeans. beard, pot belly, straight pipes, bustin' pool cues & especially
that wannabee bag ass 1%ers virtual bar thing?
Bob Nixon
01 Sprint ST "RED" 52K)_
~~~False impression. I know a dozen Harley riders, and they are far from
the 1% fellers. Now, I don't know Mr. Rayvan, he might claim to be an
''outlaw type'' like was described above. I know a doctor and a lawyer,
who on the weekends, ride their Harleys and try to look Bad, like
That always struck me as a very dangerous thing to do. From
what I hear, the REAL 1%'s don't much care for pretenders. I've only
personally known very few over the years, and never in context of
their clubs, and they were 'just plain folks', but I would never dream
of pretending to be what I'm not, around those folks who really ARE.
I think they get irritated by it, and I probably don't want to
irritate them in that way.
Post by BJayKana
described above. shoot, I try looking bad, and I ride uh Honda. heh
hehe. Bjay_
'Ya'll take care'' --BJAY--
--
Click here every day to feed an animal that needs you today !!!
http://www.theanimalrescuesite.com/

Paul ( pjm @ pobox . com ) - remove spaces to email me
'Some days, it's just not worth chewing through the restraints.'
'With sufficient thrust, pigs fly just fine.'
HVAC/R program for Palm PDA's
Free demo now available online http://pmilligan.net/palm/
Rayvan
2006-03-28 19:06:42 UTC
Permalink
Post by BJayKana
Hey Rayvan''why not spend your USENET hours over in RMH where folks
actually give a rat's pattotie about the whole HD "lifestyle; greasy
jeans. beard, pot belly, straight pipes, bustin' pool cues & especially
that wannabee bag ass 1%ers virtual bar thing?
Bob Nixon
01 Sprint ST "RED" 52K)_
~~~False impression. I know a dozen Harley riders, and they are far from
the 1% fellers. Now, I don't know Mr. Rayvan, he might claim to be an
''outlaw type'' like was described above
http://upload.pbase.com/image/24392012

Outlaw type? LOL! Lessee. Full face Shoei RF900 helmet, First Gear
armored leather jacket, Alpinestar gloves, Levis 501 jeans and 8" steel
toe Caterpillar engineer's boots. This is pretty much how I dressed
back in the seveties and eighties even before I bought my first Harley.
In fact it's pretty much how nearly *everyone* dressed in the seventies
and eighties. How exactly does this make me an outlaw type?
--
Rayvan
.***@see_my_sig_for_address.com
2006-03-28 19:14:02 UTC
Permalink
Post by Rayvan
Post by BJayKana
Hey Rayvan''why not spend your USENET hours over in RMH where folks
actually give a rat's pattotie about the whole HD "lifestyle; greasy
jeans. beard, pot belly, straight pipes, bustin' pool cues & especially
that wannabee bag ass 1%ers virtual bar thing?
Bob Nixon
01 Sprint ST "RED" 52K)_
~~~False impression. I know a dozen Harley riders, and they are far from
the 1% fellers. Now, I don't know Mr. Rayvan, he might claim to be an
''outlaw type'' like was described above
http://upload.pbase.com/image/24392012
Outlaw type? LOL! Lessee. Full face Shoei RF900 helmet, First Gear
armored leather jacket, Alpinestar gloves, Levis 501 jeans and 8" steel
toe Caterpillar engineer's boots. This is pretty much how I dressed
back in the seveties and eighties even before I bought my first Harley.
In fact it's pretty much how nearly *everyone* dressed in the seventies
and eighties. How exactly does this make me an outlaw type?
It's the gloves.
--
Click here every day to feed an animal that needs you today !!!
http://www.theanimalrescuesite.com/

Paul ( pjm @ pobox . com ) - remove spaces to email me
'Some days, it's just not worth chewing through the restraints.'
'With sufficient thrust, pigs fly just fine.'
HVAC/R program for Palm PDA's
Free demo now available online http://pmilligan.net/palm/
_Bob Nixon_
2006-03-29 01:10:21 UTC
Permalink
Post by Rayvan
Post by BJayKana
Hey Rayvan''why not spend your USENET hours over in RMH where folks
actually give a rat's pattotie about the whole HD "lifestyle; greasy
jeans. beard, pot belly, straight pipes, bustin' pool cues & especially
that wannabee bag ass 1%ers virtual bar thing?
Bob Nixon
01 Sprint ST "RED" 52K)_
~~~False impression. I know a dozen Harley riders, and they are far from
the 1% fellers. Now, I don't know Mr. Rayvan, he might claim to be an
''outlaw type'' like was described above
http://upload.pbase.com/image/24392012
Outlaw type? LOL! Lessee. Full face Shoei RF900 helmet, First Gear
armored leather jacket, Alpinestar gloves, Levis 501 jeans and 8" steel
toe Caterpillar engineer's boots. This is pretty much how I dressed
back in the seveties and eighties even before I bought my first Harley.
In fact it's pretty much how nearly *everyone* dressed in the seventies
and eighties. How exactly does this make me an outlaw type?
Gees, is this really you to the right? If so, I certainly owe you a
bunch of groveling at your feet.


Bob Nixon
01 Sprint ST "RED" 52K
Chandler,AZ
http://bigrex.net/pictures
Bob Mann
2006-03-25 01:45:00 UTC
Permalink
Post by Rayvan
Last Oct. you wrote sort of a "template" on why many metric cruiser
The rationale for many metric cruisier owners depends on
generating the perception that Harleys are not reliable,
well made motorcycles.
The poster's "point" is *so* very conflicted. In a bazar, mixed-up
way, he *needs* Harleys to be no good - instinctively knowing that
if Harleys are *not* crap, it raises some questions as to why he is
riding an imitation. IOW, His reasoning sounds so much better if
Harleys are totally unreliable.
Very Interesting! You hit the nail on the head with this guy!
It is.
One of my neighbours owns a Road Star, likes it, as do I.
They are nice bikes. (So much for the Harley guy stereotype)

Ironically, the most recent place I ran into him was at the Harley
delaership where he and a friend were buying parts and service because
the Yamaha dealer was bending them over on the costs.

Also ironically, the Yamaha dealer was the one who really steered me
to the Harley in the first place as I went in there to buy a Road
Star, having seen my neighbours. He told me that they considered the
Star line to be entry level for the Harley for people who dodn't want
to spend as much. That was right after putting me through a song and
dance routine obver my trade in.

The Harley dealer made me feel like I was at home, went out of his way
to make a deal as easy as possible and sold me a trouble free bike.
One that has spent less time in the shop than my neighbour's Road Star
which had an issue and a recall.

I find it humerous that people who don't ride Harleys always seem to
have to justify their decision and do so by putting down Harleys and
the snobby people who ride them (and who apparently put dopwn other
bikes and their riders).
Meanwhile most of the Harley riders I know appreciate all kinds of
bikes, often owning other brands as well and don't really care what
anyone else rides. They ride what they want for reasons they don't
need to explain.
I know that after owning my last Harley for two years I had no qualms
about buying another one even though I had considered BMW, Yamaha and
Honda sport touring machines as well as the Venture.
Calgary
2006-03-25 02:05:02 UTC
Permalink
Post by Bob Mann
I know that after owning my last Harley for two years I had no qualms
about buying another one even though I had considered BMW, Yamaha and
Honda sport touring machines as well as the Venture.
Speaking of your new Ultra, have you got it tucked away in your garage
yet?

The weather and the roads are improving here, and I suspect are in
Winnipeg too. Almost time to ride again!

On another topic (sorry to all who want to continue to beat the
Metric/Harley horse to death)are you still planning to take in the
Lacrosse meet in July? I have a DVD sent to me by Mark I am to pass
along to you. Something about getting into character for the weekend.
<g>
--
Don
RCOS# 7
No Riding Today

2000 - Yamaha Venture Millenium Edition
Robert Bolton
2006-03-25 05:10:56 UTC
Permalink
Post by Calgary
Post by Bob Mann
I know that after owning my last Harley for two years I had no qualms
about buying another one even though I had considered BMW, Yamaha and
Honda sport touring machines as well as the Venture.
Speaking of your new Ultra, have you got it tucked away in your garage
yet?
The weather and the roads are improving here, and I suspect are in
Winnipeg too. Almost time to ride again!
I got back from another trip to Fairbanks yesterday to find 10% of my road was
ice free. Today after work it was closer to 30%. My insurance turns on 5
April, which will be the beginning of season for me if the weather holds true.

Robert
Calgary
2006-03-25 05:14:00 UTC
Permalink
On Fri, 24 Mar 2006 20:10:56 -0900, "Robert Bolton"
Post by Robert Bolton
Post by Calgary
Post by Bob Mann
I know that after owning my last Harley for two years I had no qualms
about buying another one even though I had considered BMW, Yamaha and
Honda sport touring machines as well as the Venture.
Speaking of your new Ultra, have you got it tucked away in your garage
yet?
The weather and the roads are improving here, and I suspect are in
Winnipeg too. Almost time to ride again!
I got back from another trip to Fairbanks yesterday to find 10% of my road was
ice free. Today after work it was closer to 30%. My insurance turns on 5
April, which will be the beginning of season for me if the weather holds true.
Robert
Good luck to you Robert. I am sure there are more than a few of us who
are getting impatient waiting for the pending season. Once it starts,
let it be a safe one for everybody.
--
Don
RCOS# 7
No Riding Today

2000 - Yamaha Venture Millenium Edition
Bob Mann
2006-03-25 20:58:35 UTC
Permalink
On Sat, 25 Mar 2006 02:05:02 GMT, Calgary
Post by Calgary
Post by Bob Mann
I know that after owning my last Harley for two years I had no qualms
about buying another one even though I had considered BMW, Yamaha and
Honda sport touring machines as well as the Venture.
Speaking of your new Ultra, have you got it tucked away in your garage
yet?
Not my garage. It is sitting 3 rows up in storage at the dealership.
Post by Calgary
The weather and the roads are improving here, and I suspect are in
Winnipeg too. Almost time to ride again!
It has been melting slowly here. The ice is just about gone from the
lane behind my house.
My son got tired of bottoming out his Caddy and broke up a couple of
deep ruts and an ice crater where the lane meets the street.
I'm on the corner so I don't have to navigate too much crap.
It's supposed to get up to 10 on Monday last time I checked <rechecks>
Ooops, now it says 4. 3 now, 3 tomorrow, 4 Monday and 8 Tuesday.
I may pick it up if it makes it but it's looking like it will drop to
0 again by Thursday and I leave for a couple of weeks on Friday.
I'll probably wait until I get back.
Post by Calgary
On another topic (sorry to all who want to continue to beat the
Metric/Harley horse to death)are you still planning to take in the
Lacrosse meet in July? I have a DVD sent to me by Mark I am to pass
along to you. Something about getting into character for the weekend.
<g>
Yes, I'm still planning on it. Pass away. You have my address?
If not, send me an email and I will give it to you.
Osoyoos too if I can.
Calgary
2006-03-25 21:33:07 UTC
Permalink
Post by Bob Mann
Post by Calgary
On another topic (sorry to all who want to continue to beat the
Metric/Harley horse to death)are you still planning to take in the
Lacrosse meet in July? I have a DVD sent to me by Mark I am to pass
along to you. Something about getting into character for the weekend.
<g>
Yes, I'm still planning on it. Pass away. You have my address?
Yup I have your address. I'll pop it in Monday's mail.
Post by Bob Mann
If not, send me an email and I will give it to you.
Osoyoos too if I can.
Glad to hear it. If you are planning on Osoyoos, best book a room
fairly soon. I am staying at the Sahara. It was booked up quite some
time ago. The Poplars is right across the parking lot. They might have
something left. Sandy Beach is right next door. You could try them
too.
--
Don
RCOS# 7
No Riding Today

2000 - Yamaha Venture Millenium Edition
Bob Mann
2006-03-26 03:23:43 UTC
Permalink
On Sat, 25 Mar 2006 21:33:07 GMT, Calgary
Post by Calgary
Post by Bob Mann
Post by Calgary
On another topic (sorry to all who want to continue to beat the
Metric/Harley horse to death)are you still planning to take in the
Lacrosse meet in July? I have a DVD sent to me by Mark I am to pass
along to you. Something about getting into character for the weekend.
<g>
Yes, I'm still planning on it. Pass away. You have my address?
Yup I have your address. I'll pop it in Monday's mail.
Post by Bob Mann
If not, send me an email and I will give it to you.
Osoyoos too if I can.
Glad to hear it. If you are planning on Osoyoos, best book a room
fairly soon. I am staying at the Sahara. It was booked up quite some
time ago. The Poplars is right across the parking lot. They might have
something left. Sandy Beach is right next door. You could try them
too.
I'll give them a call.
Doug Herr
2006-03-25 16:12:13 UTC
Permalink
On Fri, 24 Mar 2006 19:45:00 -0600, Bob Mann wrote:

[snip]
Post by Bob Mann
Ironically, the most recent place I ran into him was at the Harley
delaership where he and a friend were buying parts and service because
the Yamaha dealer was bending them over on the costs.
That reminds me that if I even need a new carb diaphragm for my KLR650, I
am supposed to go to a Harley dealership. Seems that Kawasaki will not
sell the diaphragm itself, but only sell a larger assembly.

I am not a cruiser fan, so don't care much about Harley, but I do
understand that after sale service is a very valuable commodity which
Kawasaki sometimes lacks.

I say we should all just get the bike that we want/love and then ride.
Life is short.
--
Doug Herr
doug*at*wombatz*dot*com
Bob Mann
2006-03-25 20:59:54 UTC
Permalink
Post by sqidbait
[snip]
Post by Bob Mann
Ironically, the most recent place I ran into him was at the Harley
delaership where he and a friend were buying parts and service because
the Yamaha dealer was bending them over on the costs.
That reminds me that if I even need a new carb diaphragm for my KLR650, I
am supposed to go to a Harley dealership. Seems that Kawasaki will not
sell the diaphragm itself, but only sell a larger assembly.
I am not a cruiser fan, so don't care much about Harley, but I do
understand that after sale service is a very valuable commodity which
Kawasaki sometimes lacks.
I say we should all just get the bike that we want/love and then ride.
Life is short.
My sentiments exactly.
Well, not quite.
I say we should get the several bikes we want. ;-)
Pappy
2006-03-26 03:27:26 UTC
Permalink
===============snip==========================
Post by Bob Mann
Post by Doug Herr
I say we should all just get the bike that we want/love and then
ride. Life is short.
My sentiments exactly.
Well, not quite.
I say we should get the several bikes we want. ;-)
Perfect

It's too bad there will always be 'those' that believe their ride makes them
what they are, and will never figure out that they are what they are -
regardless of what they ride.


Pappy
James_
2006-03-26 03:35:20 UTC
Permalink
Post by Bob Mann
Post by sqidbait
[snip]
Post by Bob Mann
Ironically, the most recent place I ran into him was at the Harley
delaership where he and a friend were buying parts and service because
the Yamaha dealer was bending them over on the costs.
That reminds me that if I even need a new carb diaphragm for my KLR650, I
am supposed to go to a Harley dealership. Seems that Kawasaki will not
sell the diaphragm itself, but only sell a larger assembly.
I am not a cruiser fan, so don't care much about Harley, but I do
understand that after sale service is a very valuable commodity which
Kawasaki sometimes lacks.
I say we should all just get the bike that we want/love and then ride.
Life is short.
My sentiments exactly.
Well, not quite.
I say we should get the several bikes we want. ;-)
If only I had the garage space.
Bob Mann
2006-03-26 20:18:46 UTC
Permalink
Post by James_
Post by Bob Mann
Post by sqidbait
[snip]
Post by Bob Mann
Ironically, the most recent place I ran into him was at the Harley
delaership where he and a friend were buying parts and service because
the Yamaha dealer was bending them over on the costs.
That reminds me that if I even need a new carb diaphragm for my KLR650, I
am supposed to go to a Harley dealership. Seems that Kawasaki will not
sell the diaphragm itself, but only sell a larger assembly.
I am not a cruiser fan, so don't care much about Harley, but I do
understand that after sale service is a very valuable commodity which
Kawasaki sometimes lacks.
I say we should all just get the bike that we want/love and then ride.
Life is short.
My sentiments exactly.
Well, not quite.
I say we should get the several bikes we want. ;-)
If only I had the garage space.
That presents one of the many problems to overcome.
Mark Olson
2006-03-26 04:34:01 UTC
Permalink
Post by Bob Mann
Post by Doug Herr
I say we should all just get the bike that we want/love and then ride.
Life is short.
My sentiments exactly.
Well, not quite.
I say we should get the several bikes we want. ;-)
I'm working on it...
--
'01 SV650S '99 EX250-F13 '86 GL1200A '81 CM400T
OMF #7
Bob Mann
2006-03-26 20:19:14 UTC
Permalink
Post by Mark Olson
Post by Bob Mann
Post by Doug Herr
I say we should all just get the bike that we want/love and then ride.
Life is short.
My sentiments exactly.
Well, not quite.
I say we should get the several bikes we want. ;-)
I'm working on it...
That's true, you are.
I'm not jealous at all.
Nope. ;-)
Mark Olson
2006-03-26 20:30:40 UTC
Permalink
Post by Bob Mann
Post by Mark Olson
Post by Bob Mann
Post by Doug Herr
I say we should all just get the bike that we want/love and then ride.
Life is short.
My sentiments exactly.
Well, not quite.
I say we should get the several bikes we want. ;-)
I'm working on it...
That's true, you are.
I'm not jealous at all.
Nope. ;-)
I test rode a 2002 Concours today for a friend who is thinking of becoming
a BAB (Born Again Biker). His last bike was a Kawasaki 500 triple back
in 1980 or so. I don't think it's a good re-entry bike and I told him so,
but I wasn't above using his potential purchase as an opportunity for me
to get some saddle time on a Concours before I decide whether one is for
me.

All I can say is the dreaded Connie buzz was evident in abundance on this
example. It has 7k miles but has not had the first valve clearance check
done yet and I suspect the carbs are a bit plugged up and need synchronizing
as well. Despite all that it was a fun ride and I'm still thinking I'll
probably go for a decent used one if I can peddle my '86 GL1200A for a
reasonable price.
--
'01 SV650S '99 EX250-F13 '86 GL1200A '81 CM400T
OMF #7
Bob Mann
2006-03-27 00:36:29 UTC
Permalink
Post by Mark Olson
Post by Bob Mann
Post by Mark Olson
Post by Bob Mann
Post by Doug Herr
I say we should all just get the bike that we want/love and then ride.
Life is short.
My sentiments exactly.
Well, not quite.
I say we should get the several bikes we want. ;-)
I'm working on it...
That's true, you are.
I'm not jealous at all.
Nope. ;-)
I test rode a 2002 Concours today for a friend who is thinking of becoming
a BAB (Born Again Biker). His last bike was a Kawasaki 500 triple back
in 1980 or so. I don't think it's a good re-entry bike and I told him so,
but I wasn't above using his potential purchase as an opportunity for me
to get some saddle time on a Concours before I decide whether one is for
me.
All I can say is the dreaded Connie buzz was evident in abundance on this
example. It has 7k miles but has not had the first valve clearance check
done yet and I suspect the carbs are a bit plugged up and need synchronizing
as well. Despite all that it was a fun ride and I'm still thinking I'll
probably go for a decent used one if I can peddle my '86 GL1200A for a
reasonable price.
My bikes of interest at the moment are Buell Ulysses, Ducati Monster,
BMW F***GS (I'm waiting on the 800 to see if they have one coming).
I also have a Jones for a street rod Harley. Either a built to the
nuts Night Train (Jims 120B bored out to 135 with cams and head work)
or a V-Rod with as much extra performance stuff as I can get on it.
Mark Olson
2006-03-27 01:18:23 UTC
Permalink
Post by Bob Mann
My bikes of interest at the moment are Buell Ulysses, Ducati Monster,
BMW F***GS (I'm waiting on the 800 to see if they have one coming).
I also have a Jones for a street rod Harley. Either a built to the
nuts Night Train (Jims 120B bored out to 135 with cams and head work)
or a V-Rod with as much extra performance stuff as I can get on it.
Hmmm... a pretty diverse list of bikes. Actually I think that's pretty
healthy. There's so many different kinds of bikes but I think most of
us get so focused on our current favorite type we forget how much fun
trying something different can be.
--
'01 SV650S '99 EX250-F13 '86 GL1200A '81 CM400T
OMF #7
Bob Mann
2006-03-27 04:58:13 UTC
Permalink
Post by Mark Olson
Post by Bob Mann
My bikes of interest at the moment are Buell Ulysses, Ducati Monster,
BMW F***GS (I'm waiting on the 800 to see if they have one coming).
I also have a Jones for a street rod Harley. Either a built to the
nuts Night Train (Jims 120B bored out to 135 with cams and head work)
or a V-Rod with as much extra performance stuff as I can get on it.
Hmmm... a pretty diverse list of bikes. Actually I think that's pretty
healthy. There's so many different kinds of bikes but I think most of
us get so focused on our current favorite type we forget how much fun
trying something different can be.
Maybe it's my Attention Deficit Disorder. :-)
I don't see the point of having several of the same type of bike and
when the mood takes, you should have a bike for that mood.
avgardbaer
2006-03-27 16:14:50 UTC
Permalink
Well, the harley folks you know are obvously a higher degree of harley
owners then the ones here in NC. Most 'mixed' rallies around here fins
the harley folks sniping snyde remarks about the metric crusiers. As
far as the dealership you went to, you obviously were talking with a
dirt bag. Try another yamaha dealership. Of course the Harley uy was
nice, hes trying to sell you a bike with a big sticker on it.

As far as a roadstar being entry level for Harley riders. My roadstar
is a 100 cubic inch 1700 ccmotor with a longer wheel base, more tourque
and hp then any stock harley coming off the floor. Nothing entry level
anout that my friend

i used to own harleys when you paid for what they were worth. Most
intelligent people rate products they buy based on performance and
value - not on hype. Ask your Harley dealer what a extended 6 year
warranty with all maintenance included would cost....Oh Im sorry -
Harley doesnt offer one. They really do stand behind there product.
Bob Mann
2006-03-27 20:31:17 UTC
Permalink
On 27 Mar 2006 08:14:50 -0800, "avgardbaer"
Post by avgardbaer
Well, the harley folks you know are obvously a higher degree of harley
owners then the ones here in NC. Most 'mixed' rallies around here fins
the harley folks sniping snyde remarks about the metric crusiers. As
far as the dealership you went to, you obviously were talking with a
dirt bag. Try another yamaha dealership. Of course the Harley uy was
nice, hes trying to sell you a bike with a big sticker on it.
No dirt bag, just a touch difficult.
The previous owner had to change the speedo for a safety which he had
done at their shop.
Then they wanted me to confirm the mileage. I said they should already
know.
The Harley guy didn't care which of his bikes I took, new or used,
including a Yamaha V-Star 1100 and a somewhat mess around with Ducati
Monster that were a fair chunk cheaper than elsewhere.
Post by avgardbaer
As far as a roadstar being entry level for Harley riders. My roadstar
is a 100 cubic inch 1700 ccmotor with a longer wheel base, more tourque
and hp then any stock harley coming off the floor. Nothing entry level
anout that my friend
I agree with that too.
Nothing wrong with a Road Star at all.
I wanted one and I still like them. (Actually, hp is very close but
torque is consoderably higher - Rayvan posted the numbers recently)
Post by avgardbaer
i used to own harleys when you paid for what they were worth. Most
intelligent people rate products they buy based on performance and
value - not on hype. Ask your Harley dealer what a extended 6 year
warranty with all maintenance included would cost....Oh Im sorry -
Harley doesnt offer one. They really do stand behind there product.
I had a 7 year extended warranty which was $1700 Canadian including
tax. (when the exchange rate was still under 70 cents) Not full
service though.
Road Glidin' Don
2006-03-25 17:27:34 UTC
Permalink
Post by Rayvan
Last Oct. you wrote sort of a "template" on why many metric cruiser
The rationale for many metric cruisier owners depends on
generating the perception that Harleys are not reliable,
well made motorcycles.
The poster's "point" is *so* very conflicted. In a bazar, mixed-up
way, he *needs* Harleys to be no good - instinctively knowing that
if Harleys are *not* crap, it raises some questions as to why he is
riding an imitation. IOW, His reasoning sounds so much better if
Harleys are totally unreliable.
Very Interesting! You hit the nail on the head with this guy!
Heh, heh, heh. Yeah, I found Avgardbaer's post amusing too.

The question always begged by such postings is:

"Why are these guys so angry if they're so happy with their choice?"

Steve T said it best a few years ago, when he described it as a
post-purchase regret syndrome (so well established, maybe we should
abbreviate it to PPRS ;)

This becomes clearer when one notices posts like Avgardbaer's so
frequently come right on the heels of a recently completed,
Harley-look-alike clone purchase.

Soon afterwards, man, are they pissed and need to rant! Uh, no...
they're actually happy, you see... Er, no... actually they are
pissed! Hey, maybe they're so happy that their pissed! I dunno. <g>

Perhaps it's because they are so filled with pride (at buying
something everyone knows is a copy) and immediately feel defensive?
Heh, heh. Whatever the cause, here they come, regularly and
predictably, justifying their purchase...

For some reason the sport bike crowd doesn't feel they have to justify
their purchases. Mainly, it's the metric cruiser buyers. It's like
it's eating them up inside.

It's sort of like, if a person continually wants to discuss the
subject of penis size, to argue that penis size doesn't matter. After
awhile it only convinces his audience that, for him, penis size is
quite a serious problem.

If things were the way people like Avgardbaer depict them, we would be
constantly inundated with cross-posts from RMH Harley riders putting
down metric cruisers. But the reality is different. They honestly
don't care (that, of course, is then interpreted by the metric owners
as snobbishness).

It's the metric riders who do care and, as the general rule suggests,
the one yelling the loudest is usually the one in the most pain.

You know, for such people (I've seen this happen before and, perhaps,
you have too) I honestly believe they would be happier if they just
bought the freakin' Harley they're jealous of and be done with it.
Despite what they say now, many (most?) of them eventually do anyway.


They really don't like to hear it but, as the words of the Yamaha
salesman Bob Mann recently quoted says, the metrics cruisers are
basically entry level bikes for those considering a Harley - something
you can start off with, not spend too much money on at first, and see
how you like it.

Maybe it's that - among cruiser and touring types - as they get more
into riding and more involved with other riders, they start to
appreciate the simple, robust design of a Harley. It's sort of the
bike with which you can round-off your overall knowledge.

With their first bike purchase, the metric (or any) bike's mechanics
are just sort of a black box anyway (a box they must depend on the
dealer to take care of for them). But, after awhile, as their
knowledge and confidence increases, the Harley becomes more and more
attractive and the nuisance factor of metric designs becomes harder to
put up with.

The Harley's design invites you to do your own servicing and become
more self-sufficient - a 'real biker', someone who can fix his own
bike on the side of the road in a pinch, if need be. The service
manuals are great. There are so many people you can get advice from
and so on. People tend to learn Harleys inside out. By and large,
the migration goes from metrics to Harleys as experience increases and
very seldom the opposite direction. We've seen that many times, right
here among the denizens of Reeky.

--

Home page: http://xidos.ca/scripts/personal/
(for the slightly racier version, add
"defaultx.asp" to the above link)
_Bob Nixon_
2006-03-25 18:59:16 UTC
Permalink
On Sat, 25 Mar 2006 17:27:34 GMT, ***@shaw.ca (Road Glidin'
Don) wrote:

[...]
Post by Road Glidin' Don
The Harley's design invites you to do your own servicing and become
more self-sufficient - a 'real biker', someone who can fix his own
------------------------------^^^^^^^^^^^

What is this a joke? Real biker, my ass. You should have said, real
poser or real bar hopper or real wannabee who rubs elbows with 1% (meth
dealing ) outlaws and thinks he's cool because of it.
Post by Road Glidin' Don
bike on the side of the road in a pinch, if need be. The service
manuals are great. There are so many people you can get advice from
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

So are mine. Harley has no monopoly of usable service manuals.
Post by Road Glidin' Don
and so on. People tend to learn Harleys inside out.
------------------------------^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Harley owners, by & large are too stupid to understand even the most
basic mechanical designs. Who do you think you're kidding?

Figure this one out dummy!
http://www.rcvengines.com/
Post by Road Glidin' Don
By and large,
the migration goes from metrics to Harleys as experience increases and
very seldom the opposite direction.
Proof!!! Numbers please???
Post by Road Glidin' Don
We've seen that many times, right
here among the denizens of Reeky.
This last paragraph is just silly. 1st off, the only bikes you DO see
broken down alongside the road are Harleys and I also have a "single
sided swing arm" that requires but a single bolt to remove the rear
wheel. On the front, one simply put's the bike on the center stand then
unbolts the two brake calipers (4 bolts), loosens the two allen front
axil keepers, and turns out the front axil with the big allen screw
included in the tool kit then lifts the wheel between the ground and
front fender.

Oil changes are even simpler than most cars with a down facing spin on
filter and easy access 14mm drain bolt. Other breakdowns just don't
happen much but for the more periodic maintenance, my friend with a 1200
Trophy said his and my bike use the same valve adj tool.What else? Clean
the K&N filter every 10-15,000 miles. Sometimes I think you Harley guys
just like to tinker instead of riding;)

Gees, Don. I thought you'd get wiser with age but I guess you're still
under the spell of that self aggrandizing Harley mystique.


Bob Nixon
01 Sprint ST "RED" 52K
Chandler,AZ
http://bigrex.net/pictures
Road Glidin' Don
2006-03-25 21:46:17 UTC
Permalink
Post by _Bob Nixon_
[...]
Post by Road Glidin' Don
The Harley's design invites you to do your own servicing and become
more self-sufficient - a 'real biker', someone who can fix his own
------------------------------^^^^^^^^^^^
What is this a joke?
Ah, now you're starting to catch on!

What's the matter, Mr. Over-generalizer-stereotyper? Don't like it
when you get some of your medicine back at ya?
Post by _Bob Nixon_
Real biker, my ass. You should have said, real
poser or real bar hopper or real wannabee who rubs elbows with 1% (meth
dealing ) outlaws and thinks he's cool because of it.
Hey, you forgot barroom brawling. Top of the food chain, man. First
you little, nuisance sport bikers flee when we thunder in, regroup at
a safe distance and then commence salvaging your damaged self esteems,
gossiping like a bunch of little, old ladies. Heh, heh, heh.
Post by _Bob Nixon_
Post by Road Glidin' Don
bike on the side of the road in a pinch, if need be. The service
manuals are great. There are so many people you can get advice from
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
So are mine. Harley has no monopoly of usable service manuals.
Hey, we're not talking about you pint-sized, juvenile sport bikers
anyway. Get outta here.
Post by _Bob Nixon_
Post by Road Glidin' Don
and so on. People tend to learn Harleys inside out.
------------------------------^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Harley owners, by & large are too stupid to understand even the most
basic mechanical designs. Who do you think you're kidding?
Figure this one out dummy!
http://www.rcvengines.com/
What the f*ck? Bikes using little model airplane engines? That's
soooooo cute! LOL!
Post by _Bob Nixon_
Post by Road Glidin' Don
By and large,
the migration goes from metrics to Harleys as experience increases and
very seldom the opposite direction.
Proof!!! Numbers please???
Everyone! Odinn, Bob, Tim...
Post by _Bob Nixon_
Post by Road Glidin' Don
We've seen that many times, right
here among the denizens of Reeky.
This last paragraph is just silly. 1st off, the only bikes you DO see
broken down alongside the road are Harleys and I also have a "single
sided swing arm" that requires but a single bolt to remove the rear
wheel. On the front, one simply put's the bike on the center stand then
unbolts the two brake calipers (4 bolts), loosens the two allen front
axil keepers, and turns out the front axil with the big allen screw
included in the tool kit then lifts the wheel between the ground and
front fender.
Oil changes are even simpler than most cars with a down facing spin on
filter and easy access 14mm drain bolt. Other breakdowns just don't
happen much but for the more periodic maintenance, my friend with a 1200
Trophy said his and my bike use the same valve adj tool.What else? Clean
the K&N filter every 10-15,000 miles. Sometimes I think you Harley guys
just like to tinker instead of riding;)
Poor short-man-syndrome Bob. You're always getting yourself in
trouble on account of it, you know. You're living a life of measuring
yourself by, envying and back-biting others, when these things really
should not bother you. Hopefully, some day, you won't need group
support and won't feel so threatened and, once you do, you'll find you
won't get angry anymore seeing some people enjoy different bikes than
yours. ;)
Post by _Bob Nixon_
Gees, Don. I thought you'd get wiser with age but I guess you're still
under the spell of that self aggrandizing Harley mystique.
Gee, I thought I was doing a rather good impression of you! <g>

--

Home page: http://xidos.ca/scripts/personal/
(for the slightly racier version, add
"defaultx.asp" to the above link)
Vlad the Imposter
2006-03-26 18:07:12 UTC
Permalink
On Sat, 25 Mar 2006 11:59:16 -0700, via
Post by _Bob Nixon_
Harley owners, by & large are too stupid to understand even the most
basic mechanical designs. Who do you think you're kidding?
Indeed yes, thanks to you to say I am stupid. I understand not a thing,
but it is not to exaggerate saying Harley I ride be reliable, comfortable
also, not medieval device of torture. As you Mister Nixon say, I am too
stupid to understand, so I do not ask.
Ruppster
2006-03-27 13:56:48 UTC
Permalink
Post by _Bob Nixon_
[...]
Post by Road Glidin' Don
The Harley's design invites you to do your own servicing and become
more self-sufficient - a 'real biker', someone who can fix his own
------------------------------^^^^^^^^^^^
What is this a joke? Real biker, my ass. You should have said, real
poser or real bar hopper or real wannabee who rubs elbows with 1% (meth
dealing ) outlaws and thinks he's cool because of it.
Post by Road Glidin' Don
bike on the side of the road in a pinch, if need be. The service
manuals are great. There are so many people you can get advice from
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
So are mine. Harley has no monopoly of usable service manuals.
Post by Road Glidin' Don
and so on. People tend to learn Harleys inside out.
------------------------------^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Harley owners, by & large are too stupid to understand even the most
basic mechanical designs. Who do you think you're kidding?
Hi Bob,
Five years ago I used to feel just as you do about Harleys. I was
raised on Hondas and love to putt around a big bore thumper like an
XL650. I never gave a rat's behind about Harleys as they didn't make
an enduro bike. Well, my opinion changed about Harleys several years
ago when I was unemployed and a Harley dealership was willing to hire
me as a mechanic. I was trying to hold out for a job at a Honda shop
but decided I needed the money so I lowered my standards and accepted
the work. I have been working on my own bikes for over 20 years and
there is not a job on a bike that I am afraid to do. But when I
started working on Harleys I found out they weren't as bad as all my
riding friends kept claiming they were. The main thing I noticed was
they seem to use a lot less specialized tools then my Hondas or
Yamahas. And you could do a top end rebuild with the engine in the
frame. Sure beats having to pull the whole motor out just for top end
work. Plus with the engine being separate from the tranny if you have
a crankcase problem you don't have to worry about pulling the tranny
apart at the same time.

But I will also admit that all is not perfect with them either. First
off the down side to having the tranny separate from the engine is you
end up with more seals that could leak. The second thing I didn't like
is how the final (belt) drive is done on big twins. If the belt needs
to be replaced (the recommended replacement interval is 50,000 miles)
on a big twin it takes about 3 to 4 hours of labor to replace it not
to mention the belt itself costs about 3 times as much as a chain. At
least Harley got the belt setup right on the Sportster models as it
only takes about half an hour to change a belt on one (it's on the
right side of the bike instead of the left side).

As far as reliability I noticed a few trends in to why most bikes came
in not running. Most of the problems were from fouled plugs due to
improper carb jetting or using the choke too long. If it wasn't
running and the plugs were fine a lot of times it would be due to an
electrical part for the ignition system or charging system. Most (if
not all) of these parts are made overseas. I spend two years working
at two different Harley shops and I never had a bike come it that
wasn't running due to a mechanical problem like a failed piston or
valve.

Harleys may not be perfect but like every bike they have their pro's
and con's about them. The greatest part of it all is in regards to
getting parts for older bikes. Getting parts for a 30 year old Harley
is easy but I can hardly get some of the most basic stuff for my 1981
Honda GL500. <g>

And in case you are wondering, I am no longer working for a Harley
shop. Due to the Air Force moving us from Alaska to Virginia I am now
at a Polaris/Victory dealership that also sells several lines of
custom choppers powered by S&S copies of the Harley Evo engine. As far
as what bikes I ride my primary bike is the Honda I mentioned above
plus I have two other bikes. The second one is a 1984 Yamaha XT600 and
the third one (which is undergoing restoration) is a 1976 BMW R90/6. I
used to own a 2002 Harley 1200 Sportster but had to sell it when I
decided to stay unemployed for a while so I could watch my two little
ones grow up. When I am done with the restoration of the BWM I plan on
building a Sportail chassis (it's a Harley Softail frame with motor
mounts set up for a Sportster engine) with a 1450 cc (QC88) Sportster
engine.

So while I might be interested in Harleys that does not mean I don't
like metric bikes or look down on those that do. SO don't go writing
off all Harley guys as anti-metric jerks.

Ruppster
sportster at dodge-semis dot com
Bob Mann
2006-03-27 15:38:43 UTC
Permalink
On Mon, 27 Mar 2006 08:56:48 -0500, Ruppster <***@Not-me.com> wrote:

<snip details for space>
Post by Ruppster
So while I might be interested in Harleys that does not mean I don't
like metric bikes or look down on those that do. SO don't go writing
off all Harley guys as anti-metric jerks.
Ruppster
sportster at dodge-semis dot com
What great, well reasoned and balanced post. <golf clap>
Bob Mann
2006-03-25 21:02:23 UTC
Permalink
Post by Road Glidin' Don
It's sort of like, if a person continually wants to discuss the
subject of penis size, to argue that penis size doesn't matter. After
awhile it only convinces his audience that, for him, penis size is
quite a serious problem.
Sex is like air.
It's not important unless you're not getting any.

Harley ownership seems to be the same way.
Those who have them don't care.
Of those who don't, so many seem to feel the need to expound upon why
owning something else is better.
Road Glidin' Don
2006-03-25 22:04:06 UTC
Permalink
Post by Bob Mann
Post by Road Glidin' Don
It's sort of like, if a person continually wants to discuss the
subject of penis size, to argue that penis size doesn't matter. After
awhile it only convinces his audience that, for him, penis size is
quite a serious problem.
Sex is like air.
It's not important unless you're not getting any.
Harley ownership seems to be the same way.
Those who have them don't care.
Of those who don't, so many seem to feel the need to expound upon why
owning something else is better.
That's an interesting way of looking at it, Bob. [1]

II can't recall ever feeling the need to explain why I don't have a
Goldwing, a BMW, a V-Star or whatever. In fact, if I ever did such a
bizarre thing, I think I'd kick my own ass! <g>


[1] Plus, any explanation that draws a connection to sex
automatically doubles in force!

--

Home page: http://xidos.ca/scripts/personal/
(for the slightly racier version, add
"defaultx.asp" to the above link)
Philip Adams
2006-03-26 00:47:48 UTC
Permalink
Post by Road Glidin' Don
II can't recall ever feeling the need to explain why I don't have a
Goldwing, a BMW, a V-Star or whatever. In fact, if I ever did such a
bizarre thing, I think I'd kick my own ass! <g>
As a metric owner, I know exactly what the two of you are talking
about. There is often a measure of envy amongst metric riders. I
don't find it with high mileage metric riders, but those that are more
concerned with polishing rather than riding. They aspire to own a
Harley.

But in truth, I have found they didn't really want the bike, but the
brand. Those that bought Harley's that came from that mentality (and
I've seen a few) wasted their money IMO (though I guess they get their
bike enjoyment a different way than I do). They rode it as little as
they rode their metric and spent alot of time explaining why their new
bike was better than their old and your current metric.

Luckily these irritating asses are few and far between. They'd join
up on a group ride because they were a friend of a friend. They'd be
dressed in their best outlaw gear, scare the hell out of us on the BRP
with their erratic riding skills and disappear from the group never to
be seen again. Such people kept me from doing many group rides.

Most riders I know, however, are good people. We all choose a bike
for different reasons. I know when I bought my metric I went over the
pros and cons of several metrics and Harley's line. I did not settle
for a lessor bike - as it seems so many metric owners seem to feel. I
went with the best fit in a variety of categories. The pros and cons
of the metric I chose (many of the things subjective) left me seeing
it as the best bike for me. I don't aspire to own a Harley, in fact
I'm moving on, the cruiser is not for me. Its been great, but having
come from a CB750, I'm looking to go back to a more standard fit.

Now I ride with just a couple of guys I know well, and that rather
irregularly. I like just the road and my wife for the most part.
Road Glidin' Don
2006-03-26 01:54:44 UTC
Permalink
On Sat, 25 Mar 2006 19:47:48 -0500, Philip Adams
<***@lotsbellsouth.net> wrote:

<snip>
Post by Philip Adams
I did not settle
for a lessor bike - as it seems so many metric owners seem to feel.
In my experience, it's often the metric riders themselves
(volunteering to explain why they aren't riding a Harley) that
reinforce the image of the metric bike being only temporary, on the
path to getting a Harley some day. Like you say, it doesn't have to
be that way.
Post by Philip Adams
I went with the best fit in a variety of categories. The pros and cons
of the metric I chose (many of the things subjective) left me seeing
it as the best bike for me. I don't aspire to own a Harley, in fact
I'm moving on, the cruiser is not for me. Its been great, but having
come from a CB750, I'm looking to go back to a more standard fit.
Sounds like a smart way to go about it to me. The same bike (or even
the same category of bike) doesn't fit everyone.
Post by Philip Adams
Now I ride with just a couple of guys I know well, and that rather
irregularly. I like just the road and my wife for the most part.
Yep. The road and the wife are the most important part for me too.
Just bought my wife her first Harley, last Valentine's day, in fact.
If you're going to do a lot of something, it sure helps when you can
both enjoy it.

What you said earlier (snipped) about the come-and-go riders, buying
all the fancy gear, the best bikes and then, after awhile, never being
seen again certainly rings true too. A lot of people are that way.
When they get into something, they go into it whole-hog (so to speak).
Everything has to be the very best (and most expensive), even if they
use if for only a few months. And then they disappear, onto the next
interest...

I have been involved with 2 HOG chapters in my area over the years
and, due to the way the 2 sponsoring dealers attract a different
clientele, it's been interesting to observe the different outcomes.
The one dealer sells more to the higher-earning, professional people,
while the other is more for the regular-joe type.

Guess which dealer's chapter is, by far, the most active and fun? The
second one. It seems that, for those who have plenty of money to
burn, the bike is not necessarily a big part of their life when they
get it. They're around for awhile and then gone. And, even while
around, not interested in doing much or contributing.

But, for those on a tighter budget, if they buy a Harley, it's a major
(often long-planned-for) deal for them and they tend to build their
schedules around riding and activities related to it.

As a result, the riders in the latter group also tend to be better
(they ride more frequently and care for their investment), so that
helps for safe group rides, which further improves participation. (a
few good, diligent road captains sure don't hurt either)

A group can only sustain a certain percentage of newbies to
old-timers, so it's vitally important to hold onto members. They are
the ones who have developed some savvy, a sense of history and the
standards of behaviour expected from members, along with enough
credibility for others to pay attention.

--

Home page: http://xidos.ca/scripts/personal/
(for the slightly racier version, add
"defaultx.asp" to the above link)
Venture Rider <dontbother@>
2006-03-26 02:20:33 UTC
Permalink
Post by Road Glidin' Don
What you said earlier (snipped) about the come-and-go riders, buying
all the fancy gear, the best bikes
He said nothing about those people buying the best bikes. He said very
clearly that they bought Harleys.
--
"Beauty is in the eye of the beer holder."
Philip Adams
2006-03-26 02:25:32 UTC
Permalink
Post by Road Glidin' Don
In my experience, it's often the metric riders themselves
(volunteering to explain why they aren't riding a Harley) that
reinforce the image of the metric bike being only temporary, on the
path to getting a Harley some day. Like you say, it doesn't have to
be that way.
Exactly.

But I will say this - I have been asked why I don't ride a Harley and
heard other metric riders asked the same. But I have never heard the
HD riders asked the opposite (not implying they should be asked). My
point in highlighting that little observation is maybe some peoples
knee jerk reaction is to get defensive, and sometimes going on the
defensive means going on the offensive.

From there we develop idiotic posts like the above
*Metrics and Harley's*

It seems like a forum such as this - with such a diverse riding
community - we could put aside the one-ups-manship and appreciate that
others ride what they like for reasons that can be very different than
our own.

The good-natured ribbing is one thing, but the down-right idiocy and
arrogance so often displayed is another.

Of course if all the trolls and political BS stopped on this group
there would just be you and me left...

... and I'm not too sure about you. ;)

On a more entertaining subject.

Had a blast today on a great solo ride. Only about 300 miles, but I
had to make frequent stops to regain the feeling in my hands. I
stupidly underdressed thinking it was going to warm up during the day,
and it really was not too bad when I left - Then I went UP the
mountain.

Luckily I carry thermacare heat packs for just such an emergency, and
my body was actually quite toasty. But my gloves (which have pockets
for chemical heat packs) were a bit too thin for todays jaunt SINCE I
was out of heat packs - I thought I had some in the saddlebags, but
was wrong.

Anyway, hit the 181 speedway to the Blue Ridge Parkway, headed North
to some location up in Virginia, scooted back and then got off on some
nice looking little roads near the NC - VA border.

Great day.
Calgary
2006-03-26 03:12:59 UTC
Permalink
Post by Philip Adams
I did not settle
Post by Philip Adams
for a lessor bike - as it seems so many metric owners seem to feel.
I must be friggin bored to get drawn into one of these threads, but
since it is still cold and the forecast is for more fucking snow
tonight this stinky bait is looking pretty good.
Post by Philip Adams
In my experience, it's often the metric riders themselves
(volunteering to explain why they aren't riding a Harley) that
reinforce the image of the metric bike being only temporary, on the
path to getting a Harley some day. Like you say, it doesn't have to
be that way.
For some of us there is only room for one bike in our garage, or in
our budget for that matter. Despite the fact we may consider it the
best bike for us at the time, that does not preclude us from looking
ahead at what style, brand or type of bike may be in our future. Could
that next bike be a Harley? Sure. But that doesn't make our current
choice a stop gap, fill in until we can buy a Harley. Hell I suspect
most of us could go out tomorrow and buy whatever bike we wanted. We
are living in affluent times.

Until January last, I road a standard for seven years and it was
great. For the type of riding I was doing, it was the bike for me, but
I knew there was a full dresser at some point in my future. When my
career went in a direction that allowed me more time off during the
summer months,it wasn't long before I bought a bagger. Yeah it could
have been a Harley, Cavalcade or a Voyager but the best bang for the
buck turned out to be a Venture.

I put about 27,000 kms on that bike last year and hope to log a
similar amount this year.

Now although I couldn't be more content with my current bike, I still
look at what else is out there I'd like to taste. Yeah I still look at
the clean lines of the Harley Cruisers and Dressers, thinking I would
like to own one some day. You might call that Harley envy, but just
yesterday I caught myself wondering how I could make an FJR fit my
riding style. The V-Strom has intrigued me for a year now and believe
it or not, more and more I am thinking of taking my riding time to the
dirt. I'd also like to see what taking part in a track day would be
like. Given the opportunity I could easily get addicted to finding the
limits of a bike in a controlled condition.

I just have Bike Envy, plain and simple. The more I ride and talk to
other riders, the more I'd like to sample all of the bikes out there.
Each one will provide a new and unique perspective to this recreation.

At the end of the day and at the end of the ride, my sense is the best
part of riding is the people you meet, regardless of what the fuck
they are riding.

See Don, I'd like you and your wife no matter what you were riding....
Well your wife anyway. ;-)
--
Don
RCOS# 7
No Riding Today

2000 - Yamaha Venture Millenium Edition
Road Glidin' Don
2006-03-26 03:32:26 UTC
Permalink
On Sun, 26 Mar 2006 03:12:59 GMT, Calgary
Post by Calgary
Post by Philip Adams
I did not settle
Post by Philip Adams
for a lessor bike - as it seems so many metric owners seem to feel.
I must be friggin bored to get drawn into one of these threads, but
since it is still cold and the forecast is for more fucking snow
tonight this stinky bait is looking pretty good.
Pretty much the same situation here. That snow's just not leaving!
Post by Calgary
Post by Philip Adams
In my experience, it's often the metric riders themselves
(volunteering to explain why they aren't riding a Harley) that
reinforce the image of the metric bike being only temporary, on the
path to getting a Harley some day. Like you say, it doesn't have to
be that way.
For some of us there is only room for one bike in our garage, or in
our budget for that matter. Despite the fact we may consider it the
best bike for us at the time, that does not preclude us from looking
ahead at what style, brand or type of bike may be in our future. Could
that next bike be a Harley? Sure. But that doesn't make our current
choice a stop gap, fill in until we can buy a Harley. Hell I suspect
most of us could go out tomorrow and buy whatever bike we wanted. We
are living in affluent times.
Heh, heh. Well, you gotta understand that I just had to tally a few
points on the other side of the ledger - in the spirit of the original
post, of course.

In other words, aimed at insecure types who just need to bash Harleys
as soon as they buy a metric (which sure ain't you and Philip, for
instance).

<snip>
Post by Calgary
See Don, I'd like you and your wife no matter what you were riding....
Well your wife anyway. ;-)
Without the benefit of her, I'd be completely unredeemable. ;)

--

Home page: http://xidos.ca/scripts/personal/
(for the slightly racier version, add
"defaultx.asp" to the above link)
Calgary
2006-03-26 03:46:38 UTC
Permalink
Post by Road Glidin' Don
Post by Calgary
For some of us there is only room for one bike in our garage, or in
our budget for that matter. Despite the fact we may consider it the
best bike for us at the time, that does not preclude us from looking
ahead at what style, brand or type of bike may be in our future. Could
that next bike be a Harley? Sure. But that doesn't make our current
choice a stop gap, fill in until we can buy a Harley. Hell I suspect
most of us could go out tomorrow and buy whatever bike we wanted. We
are living in affluent times.
Heh, heh. Well, you gotta understand that I just had to tally a few
points on the other side of the ledger - in the spirit of the original
post, of course.
In other words, aimed at insecure types who just need to bash Harleys
as soon as they buy a metric (which sure ain't you and Philip, for
instance).
Bob is just screwing with you. Boredom drove me to this thread. I am
still trying to figure out what motivated Bob to participate. After
all he has weather and road conditions that will let him ride.
--
Don
RCOS# 7
No Riding Today

2000 - Yamaha Venture Millenium Edition
James_
2006-03-26 03:44:37 UTC
Permalink
Post by Calgary
I just have Bike Envy, plain and simple. The more I ride and talk to
other riders, the more I'd like to sample all of the bikes out there.
Each one will provide a new and unique perspective to this recreation.
Ain't that the truth. I just got the z750s, and there is a little itch about the
SV650/1000. They all look so much fun to try out to me.
Calgary
2006-03-26 04:07:03 UTC
Permalink
Post by James_
Post by Calgary
I just have Bike Envy, plain and simple. The more I ride and talk to
other riders, the more I'd like to sample all of the bikes out there.
Each one will provide a new and unique perspective to this recreation.
Ain't that the truth. I just got the z750s, and there is a little itch about the
SV650/1000. They all look so much fun to try out to me.
We live in a time where research and technology will feed any
addiction we might have. When we ride within our limits craving bikes
is a relatively innocuous habit to have. It's a fun one though!
--
Don
RCOS# 7
No Riding Today

2000 - Yamaha Venture Millenium Edition
Robert Bolton
2006-03-26 09:09:04 UTC
Permalink
Post by James_
Post by Calgary
I just have Bike Envy, plain and simple. The more I ride and talk to
other riders, the more I'd like to sample all of the bikes out there.
Each one will provide a new and unique perspective to this recreation.
Ain't that the truth. I just got the z750s, and there is a little itch about
the SV650/1000. They all look so much fun to try out to me.
I was eyeballing a Ural again at his springs bike show. There's something about
those things that I like. The dealer says a little larger engine is coming next
year. I discovered too that what I thought was an antique Royal Enfield was in
fact a 2005 model, complete with sidecar. Don't know how many horses push those
things down the road.

Robert
Bob Mann
2006-03-26 03:33:05 UTC
Permalink
On Sat, 25 Mar 2006 19:47:48 -0500, Philip Adams
Post by Philip Adams
Most riders I know, however, are good people. We all choose a bike
for different reasons. I know when I bought my metric I went over the
pros and cons of several metrics and Harley's line. I did not settle
for a lessor bike - as it seems so many metric owners seem to feel. I
went with the best fit in a variety of categories. The pros and cons
of the metric I chose (many of the things subjective) left me seeing
it as the best bike for me. I don't aspire to own a Harley, in fact
I'm moving on, the cruiser is not for me. Its been great, but having
come from a CB750, I'm looking to go back to a more standard fit.
Now I ride with just a couple of guys I know well, and that rather
irregularly. I like just the road and my wife for the most part.
Of the guys I ride with regularly, one owns a Harley, the other a
Honda ACE.
None of us care what the others ride (although the Harley rider wants
a tourer instead of a cruiser)
As far as I am concerned, even though I am now on my second Harley,
neither of them were strictly speaking cruisers.
The FXD was more of a standard with a V twin motor as it had mid
controls and upright seating, decent clearance and reasonably good
handling for a big bike.
The new bike which I have yet to pick up is a full on touring bike,
also with upright seating.
My previous bike was a BMW sport tourer which hurt me and that is the
only reason I got rid of it. Otherwise it was a great bike and capable
of going 250 miles on a tank at 100 mph. I do miss that.

I feel that as long as you get the bike you really want and ride it,
it should never be a problem and you should have nothing to explain as
well as no need to complain about other brands.
I like all bikes. I just like some more than others.
I also want a Ducati Monster and a BMW F series GS model although that
is unlikely to happen.
avgardbaer
2006-03-27 16:23:26 UTC
Permalink
This guy is a joke......Obviously knows littleabout motorcycles,
technology and reliability. If you read my original on metrics vs
harley, you would see I used to own harleys. Also consider that the
metrics offer bigger bikes with bigger engines, more tourque, etc..
there is nothing entry level about them. They are just a better bike
for less money and my alcolade was in response to all the guys like
you that think if its not a harley then its not a real bike.

I like harleys. there fun. there just not worth the money they ask
anymore. There also not as good as the metrcs on the market. The
specs speak for themselves if youknow anything at all about motorcycles
Bob Mann
2006-03-27 20:32:19 UTC
Permalink
On 27 Mar 2006 08:23:26 -0800, "avgardbaer"
Post by avgardbaer
This guy is a joke......Obviously knows littleabout motorcycles,
technology and reliability. If you read my original on metrics vs
harley, you would see I used to own harleys. Also consider that the
metrics offer bigger bikes with bigger engines, more tourque, etc..
there is nothing entry level about them. They are just a better bike
for less money and my alcolade was in response to all the guys like
you that think if its not a harley then its not a real bike.
I like harleys. there fun. there just not worth the money they ask
anymore. There also not as good as the metrcs on the market. The
specs speak for themselves if youknow anything at all about motorcycles
You're going to have to start quoting some relevent text so we know
who and what you are responding to.
avgardbaer
2006-03-27 21:53:42 UTC
Permalink
sorry, looks like it posted incorrectly...using a non standard browser
so its a little quirky at times....was responding to previous comment
that insisted i said harleys suck. that is not the case, I just think
metrics are better based on what u get for your money....not directed
at you
Bob Mann
2006-03-28 01:26:34 UTC
Permalink
On 27 Mar 2006 13:53:42 -0800, "avgardbaer"
Post by avgardbaer
sorry, looks like it posted incorrectly...using a non standard browser
so its a little quirky at times....was responding to previous comment
that insisted i said harleys suck. that is not the case, I just think
metrics are better based on what u get for your money....not directed
at you
Just before you reply, highlight and copy what you are replying to and
then paste it in the reply.
That way we can follow.

Personally, I don't care who has what, who likes what, what's cheaper
than what and why.
It's all good.
I agree that, in the short to medium run you can definitely get more
for your money buying metric.
I'm less interested in that than I am in other things and I am really
enjoying the hell out of my new bike and I haven't even taken delivery
yet.
Spent anouther $300+ on it today.
Bought the high output air horn and a tour pack bag for the two up
trips.

The guy who sold me the stuff commented on how much power the bike was
putting out. It should be for what I put into it but that's all a part
of the game. I did the 95 inch, high comp pistons, flowed heads, cams,
remap, intake, exhaust thing.

An acquaintance of mine was in there the last time I was and he now
has a total of $45,000 into his Road King, most of it in dress up
items after paying near $30,000 for the bike in 2003.
At least I haven't gone that far.
Yet.
_Bob Nixon_
2006-03-28 06:33:39 UTC
Permalink
Post by Bob Mann
On 27 Mar 2006 13:53:42 -0800, "avgardbaer"
Post by avgardbaer
sorry, looks like it posted incorrectly...using a non standard browser
so its a little quirky at times....was responding to previous comment
that insisted i said harleys suck. that is not the case, I just think
metrics are better based on what u get for your money....not directed
at you
Just before you reply, highlight and copy what you are replying to and
then paste it in the reply.
That way we can follow.
Personally, I don't care who has what, who likes what, what's cheaper
than what and why.
It's all good.
I agree that, in the short to medium run you can definitely get more
for your money buying metric.
I'm less interested in that than I am in other things and I am really
enjoying the hell out of my new bike and I haven't even taken delivery
yet.
Spent anouther $300+ on it today.
Bought the high output air horn and a tour pack bag for the two up
trips.
The guy who sold me the stuff commented on how much power the bike was
putting out. It should be for what I put into it but that's all a part
of the game. I did the 95 inch, high comp pistons, flowed heads, cams,
remap, intake, exhaust thing.
An acquaintance of mine was in there the last time I was and he now
has a total of $45,000 into his Road King, most of it in dress up
items after paying near $30,000 for the bike in 2003.
At least I haven't gone that far.
Yet.
Too much $$$ Bob. And the 96 cu inches , so what? It's still a slow ass
Harley. Stop trying to justify being a fool with your money, whatever
the real underlining reason may be.


Bob Nixon
01 Sprint ST "RED" 52K
Chandler,AZ
http://bigrex.net/pictures
Bob Mann
2006-03-28 15:05:11 UTC
Permalink
Post by _Bob Nixon_
Post by Bob Mann
On 27 Mar 2006 13:53:42 -0800, "avgardbaer"
Post by avgardbaer
sorry, looks like it posted incorrectly...using a non standard browser
so its a little quirky at times....was responding to previous comment
that insisted i said harleys suck. that is not the case, I just think
metrics are better based on what u get for your money....not directed
at you
Just before you reply, highlight and copy what you are replying to and
then paste it in the reply.
That way we can follow.
Personally, I don't care who has what, who likes what, what's cheaper
than what and why.
It's all good.
I agree that, in the short to medium run you can definitely get more
for your money buying metric.
I'm less interested in that than I am in other things and I am really
enjoying the hell out of my new bike and I haven't even taken delivery
yet.
Spent anouther $300+ on it today.
Bought the high output air horn and a tour pack bag for the two up
trips.
The guy who sold me the stuff commented on how much power the bike was
putting out. It should be for what I put into it but that's all a part
of the game. I did the 95 inch, high comp pistons, flowed heads, cams,
remap, intake, exhaust thing.
An acquaintance of mine was in there the last time I was and he now
has a total of $45,000 into his Road King, most of it in dress up
items after paying near $30,000 for the bike in 2003.
At least I haven't gone that far.
Yet.
Too much $$$ Bob. And the 96 cu inches , so what? It's still a slow ass
Harley. Stop trying to justify being a fool with your money, whatever
the real underlining reason may be.
It's my money and it's fun. If I'm having fun, what else can I ask
for. (se sig)
And I seriously doubt it will be slow. Few bikes are slow. Some are
just faster than others and I really don't need one capable of doing
150mph.
Besides, I was being humerous.
At least I'm only into my second past time for $3500.
This isn't about the money, it's about doing what you want to do, not
what someone else thinks you should do.
You're as bad as the Harley snobs you talk about.
Bob Mann
--
Hell, if your bike satisfies you, your wife isn't getting special
deliveries from the mailman, your dog still loves you and you're having
solid shits, what more do you want out of life!
avgardbaer
2006-03-28 18:20:34 UTC
Permalink
I dont care what people ride or buy either, but i recently went for a
run with a friend who went out with a group of 'harley riders only'.
They were les then thrilled with my yamaha and cut it up every chance
they had. (Tough most had problems keeping up) they all spoke bullshit
and did not speak from fact. A lot of them visit this forum so I
thought I would say my piece. Ride hard, ride good, ride safe and
enjoy man.
Road Glidin' Don
2006-03-28 06:29:23 UTC
Permalink
On 27 Mar 2006 08:23:26 -0800, "avgardbaer"
Post by avgardbaer
I used to own harleys.
<snip>
Post by avgardbaer
my alcolade was in response to all the guys like
you that think if its not a harley then its not a real bike.
You wish you had a Harley again and you're just pissed because they
sell for more than you wanted to (or could) spend.

Get used to it. Stuff sells according to what value people assign to
it. Hardly a reason to come here and bitch. And, if you truly did
feel as fortunate as you claim, you wouldn't.

--

Home page: http://xidos.ca/scripts/personal/
(for the slightly racier version, add
"defaultx.asp" to the above link)
avgardbaer
2006-03-28 18:17:08 UTC
Permalink
you really dont appear to know how to read dude. You got my message
all wrong. I guess that goes along with your poor financial decisions
in purchasing motorcycles as well. If your happy with your harley
thats great, but its still like charging a porche price for a
oldsomobile when you buy a harley no matter how you cut it. specs
speak for themselves.

You are right in you asertion that stuff sells for the value people
assign to it. I just believe that they have a great marketing scheme
that inflates that valiue made just for suckers like you. It still
doesnt mean its worth it. I saw a guy in NYC once selling folded up
handywipes as art for $10 a piece once. he sold 500 of them. Told me
for everything you make in this world there is always a sucker ready to
pay top dollar for it. he was right

Not bitching, just stating a fact backed up by intelligent reading of
the technology that goes into the bikes. You should try it sometime,
its the stuff thats made up of letters and words dude....
G. Rodgers
2006-03-28 18:42:13 UTC
Permalink
Post by avgardbaer
you really dont appear to know how to read dude. You got my message
all wrong. I guess that goes along with your poor financial decisions
in purchasing motorcycles as well. If your happy with your harley
thats great, but its still like charging a porche price for a
oldsomobile when you buy a harley no matter how you cut it. specs
speak for themselves.
You are right in you asertion that stuff sells for the value people
assign to it. I just believe that they have a great marketing scheme
that inflates that valiue made just for suckers like you. It still
doesnt mean its worth it. I saw a guy in NYC once selling folded up
handywipes as art for $10 a piece once. he sold 500 of them. Told me
for everything you make in this world there is always a sucker ready to
pay top dollar for it. he was right
Not bitching, just stating a fact backed up by intelligent reading of
the technology that goes into the bikes. You should try it sometime,
its the stuff thats made up of letters and words dude....
you're elagint prosed convinsed, me already dude. Reading what yore
writing was all I needed thanks for the intelligint analisis. JUst one
questioned I thought win I was reading you're story is wear do I get
one of those art things for only $10 a peace?

letters and words dude..... letters and words!

ps just say know to oldsomobils and porches!
avgardbaer
2006-03-27 19:18:21 UTC
Permalink
if you were as educated as a "shrink", which is what you are attempting
to be based on your post, then maybe you would be educated enough to
not be taken by a marketing scheme such as Harley davidson. The point
in the message if you can read is not that harleys suck, its just that
they are not worth the asking price. Technology and specs speak for
themselves. get an education.
avgardbaer
2006-03-28 19:33:42 UTC
Permalink
you really should learn to read. That wasnot at all the point of the
message. Im glad you like harleys. Im ecstatic you want to pay the
price. I used to own two of them and loved them. However I was in my
twenties and diid not mind working on them all the friggin time.

The point of the post is that based on specs and technology your are
paying more for less. Its simple economics and valuation. You can
find the word economics in the dictionary as well as the word value.

HD is a true american marketing succes story. For every thing that is
made there is always a sucker willing to pay top price for it.good
luck. ride hard, ride good, ride safe.
Big Al
2006-03-25 02:13:21 UTC
Permalink
Wait until you see the re-sale value of that Roadstar in a couple of years,
then you'll see what you're paying for when you buy a Harley.

American Made? Say what you want, but I live 10 min from the final assembly
plant in York, PA and they employ a hell of a lot of people around here.

p.s. I don't have one and I don't want one. I ride a Triumph.
Ari Rankum
2006-03-25 02:23:53 UTC
Permalink
Post by Big Al
Wait until you see the re-sale value of that Roadstar in a couple of years,
then you'll see what you're paying for when you buy a Harley.
Ah yes, the HOG IRA.
Ari Rankum
2006-03-25 02:30:35 UTC
Permalink
Post by Big Al
American Made? Say what you want, but I live 10 min from the final assembly
plant in York, PA and they employ a hell of a lot of people around here.
I'd say it's more like 1.5 hours away than 10 minutes.
Post by Big Al
p.s. I don't have one and I don't want one. I ride a Triumph.
Half of that is true.
Big Al
2006-03-25 20:05:40 UTC
Permalink
Hey Genius:

The plant is in York and I am in York. How is that 1.5 hours away?
Post by Ari Rankum
Post by Big Al
American Made? Say what you want, but I live 10 min from the final assembly
plant in York, PA and they employ a hell of a lot of people around here.
I'd say it's more like 1.5 hours away than 10 minutes.
Post by Big Al
p.s. I don't have one and I don't want one. I ride a Triumph.
Half of that is true.
c***@netscape.net
2006-03-25 21:59:21 UTC
Permalink
I'm reminded of Tony Goldwyn as Carl Bruner, swinging and punching
wildly through thin air, desperately trying to strike back at the
unseen ghost of Sam Wheat.

Everyone looking on is, just, mystified.

Oda May would be *so* proud!

--
ttcp "I'll be coming home, wait for me..."
Post by Big Al
The plant is in York and I am in York. How is that 1.5 hours away?
Post by Ari Rankum
Post by Big Al
American Made? Say what you want, but I live 10 min from the final
assembly
Post by Ari Rankum
Post by Big Al
plant in York, PA and they employ a hell of a lot of people around here.
I'd say it's more like 1.5 hours away than 10 minutes.
Post by Big Al
p.s. I don't have one and I don't want one. I ride a Triumph.
Half of that is true.
Ari Rankum
2006-03-25 23:27:01 UTC
Permalink
Post by Big Al
The plant is in York and I am in York. How is that 1.5 hours away?
You just got 3 hours, buddy. You wann go for 4? Keep it up.
Big Al
2006-03-25 20:10:04 UTC
Permalink
Address:

Harley Final Assembly Plant
1425 Eden Road
York, PA 17402

Yes, 10 minutes from my house in York, PA 17402
Post by Ari Rankum
Post by Big Al
American Made? Say what you want, but I live 10 min from the final assembly
plant in York, PA and they employ a hell of a lot of people around here.
I'd say it's more like 1.5 hours away than 10 minutes.
Post by Big Al
p.s. I don't have one and I don't want one. I ride a Triumph.
Half of that is true.
avgardbaer
2006-03-28 18:38:56 UTC
Permalink
You ought to look on online for how many people Yamaha employs in this
country as a whole in all aspects of manufacturing and sales. It
dwarfs whatever harley contributes to the economy.
Steve T
2006-03-29 00:41:21 UTC
Permalink
"avgardbaer" <***@charter.net> wrote:

:You ought to look on online for how many people Yamaha employs in this
:country as a whole in all aspects of manufacturing and sales. It
:dwarfs whatever harley contributes to the economy.

Why don't YOU look online and tell us the results. You are the one
making the claim.
--
NewsGuy.Com 30Gb $9.95 Carry Forward and On Demand Bandwidth
avgardbaer
2006-03-27 19:08:21 UTC
Permalink
thats great....marketing can make good resale. i could care less about
resale. i like ot ride. so if you own a harley, enjoy it. The price
is high, so the resale is high. Its all do to a gnius marketing plan,
not because it is a better bike. read the specs dude an compare then
you will be speaking from a point of fact and not just harley imagery.
I like harleys but i would not buy one. They are just not worth it.
Venture Rider <dontbother@>
2006-03-27 21:53:48 UTC
Permalink
Post by avgardbaer
i could care less about
resale. i like ot ride.
Resale value is the last thing on my mind when I buy a bike.
--
"Beauty is in the eye of the beer holder."
Bob Mann
2006-03-28 01:27:36 UTC
Permalink
Post by Venture Rider <dontbother@>
Post by avgardbaer
i could care less about
resale. i like ot ride.
Resale value is the last thing on my mind when I buy a bike.
If resale was an issue, nobody would ever change a thing on the bike.
The more you make it "yours", the less you will see back from your
"investment".
_Bob Nixon_
2006-03-28 06:54:09 UTC
Permalink
Post by Bob Mann
Post by Venture Rider <dontbother@>
Post by avgardbaer
i could care less about
resale. i like ot ride.
Resale value is the last thing on my mind when I buy a bike.
If resale was an issue, nobody would ever change a thing on the bike.
The more you make it "yours", the less you will see back from your
"investment".
Resale value is bullshit. If you don't keep a car or bike for 5-10+
years, you're a vein idiot. Do you like the bike. yes or no or do you
REALLY feel you've wasted a bunch of cash. Hell I could take a bone
stock naked SV-650 with a fly screen and blow 99% of you Harley bozos
into the weeds with my one leg and end up enjoying the bike much better
overall. Let's see, $4,000 for a used SV-650 vs $20,000 for a basic
800lb Harley, where the former SV beats the later in almost every
respects.

Bob, I know a bridge for sale in Manhattan that is going for a song, if
you're interested;) BTW, don't be RR Don's pawn. He's driven by his
vanity and still thinks he's a 16 year old kid chasing teenage girls
although he's now a grandpa. In the circles I travel he'd be a potential
dirty old man to a child molester. There's a time for procreation and
sex being fun but it's sick to see a man Don's age where that's STILL
his main drive in life;)


Bob Nixon
01 Sprint ST "RED" 52K
Chandler,AZ
http://bigrex.net/pictures
Bob Mann
2006-03-28 15:13:16 UTC
Permalink
Post by _Bob Nixon_
Post by Bob Mann
Post by Venture Rider <dontbother@>
Post by avgardbaer
i could care less about
resale. i like ot ride.
Resale value is the last thing on my mind when I buy a bike.
If resale was an issue, nobody would ever change a thing on the bike.
The more you make it "yours", the less you will see back from your
"investment".
Resale value is bullshit. If you don't keep a car or bike for 5-10+
years, you're a vein idiot. Do you like the bike. yes or no or do you
REALLY feel you've wasted a bunch of cash. Hell I could take a bone
stock naked SV-650 with a fly screen and blow 99% of you Harley bozos
into the weeds with my one leg and end up enjoying the bike much better
overall. Let's see, $4,000 for a used SV-650 vs $20,000 for a basic
800lb Harley, where the former SV beats the later in almost every
respects.
I know you'te having fun with this but I have arthritis in my knees
and shoulders.
I can't ride an SV650 far enough to really enjoy it. If I could, I
would never have sold the BMW.
There is one place the SV doesn't beat the Ultra (not very basic
either) and that is long distance comfort.
See, you wouldn't blow me into the weeds because I wouldn't try to
keep up. I would just be tooling along at 80 mph enjoying the ride,
slowing down for curves and taking them at moderately sane speeds.
If I feel like changing bikes for whatever reason, vanity is the least
of them.
Post by _Bob Nixon_
Bob, I know a bridge for sale in Manhattan that is going for a song, if
you're interested;) BTW, don't be RR Don's pawn. He's driven by his
vanity and still thinks he's a 16 year old kid chasing teenage girls
although he's now a grandpa. In the circles I travel he'd be a potential
dirty old man to a child molester. There's a time for procreation and
sex being fun but it's sick to see a man Don's age where that's STILL
his main drive in life;)
Don and I are around the same age as far as I can tell.
I haven't seen anything from Don suggesting he is chasing anyone but
Gladys.
I do what I do for me, and my wife, and no one else.
That includes you.
If I had not bought the Harley, my other choices would have been
either a Road Star (same pile as the Harley) or a BMW RT or GS model.
I was never in the market for sport or sport touring.
I might get a naked street bike for around town but I am so far from
any real curves sport is the least of my worries.
Bob Mann
--
Hell, if your bike satisfies you, your wife isn't getting special
deliveries from the mailman, your dog still loves you and you're having
solid shits, what more do you want out of life!
Chuck Rhode
2006-03-28 22:20:31 UTC
Permalink
_Bob Nixon_ wrote this on Mon, 27 Mar 2006 23:54:09 -0700. My reply is
below.
In the circles I travel he'd be a potential dirty old man to a child
molester.
Surprisingly, you can learn to spot them. Take the following quiz!

"1,017,787 people suspect their co-workers daily."

o Maddox. "How to Spot a Pedophile." 10 Feb. 2006. _The Best Page in
the Universe: Am I Right or What?_
<http://www.thebestpageintheuniverse.net/c.cgi?u=spot_the_pedo>.
--
.. Chuck Rhode, Sheboygan, WI, USA
.. 1979 Honda Goldwing GL1000 (Geraldine)
.. 1978 Honda Goldwing GL1000 (Fenris)
.. 48F. Wind E 7 mph. Clear.
Steve T
2006-03-25 19:46:57 UTC
Permalink
"avgardbaer" <***@charter.net> wrote:

:
:Just my thoughts.

Nope. Just another lousy troll from a guy looking for acceptance.

.5 Not even in the game
--
NewsGuy.Com 30Gb $9.95 Carry Forward and On Demand Bandwidth
avgardbaer
2006-03-27 19:11:32 UTC
Permalink
if im a troll, you are the waste I leave behind. You obviously know
nothing about bikes. Just a follower with no fact to back them up.
Steve T
2006-03-28 01:28:29 UTC
Permalink
"avgardbaer" <***@charter.net> wrote:

:if im a troll, you are the waste I leave behind. You obviously know
:nothing about bikes. Just a follower with no fact to back them up.

Learn English.
--
NewsGuy.Com 30Gb $9.95 Carry Forward and On Demand Bandwidth
BJayKana
2006-03-28 18:13:59 UTC
Permalink
if im a troll, you are the waste I leave behind. You obviously know
nothing about bikes. Just a follower with no fact to back them up.
-avgardbaer-

Mr. Avgardbaer, Did you have this discussion over on the HD NG?
Bashing Harleys is like Bashing President Bush, it don't take long for
the thread to get tangled up, and stretch out, and end up amounting to
zip, but lotta fun along the way~ (wink) bjay~

'Ya'll take care'' --BJAY--
avgardbaer
2006-03-28 18:54:33 UTC
Permalink
nope.. i put it hear because a some of the harley guys i know frequent
this forum and they all talk out there ass about metrics. So I figured
i would provide some good fodder for discussion. Personally i dont car
what people ride and spend there money on as long as they are happy. I
was just stating some well known facts among people that actually read
and understand a little bit about economics and marketing. Its amazing
how great HDs marketing works. true american success story
considering they had to sell outo once to the japs
BJayKana
2006-03-28 17:47:38 UTC
Permalink
~Mr. Avgardbaer states his point of view about Harleys):~''So the
general snottiness from most harley owners towards metric bikes is
generally due to ignorance and falling for a genius of a marketing
scheme thats grown over years. I have met very few harley dudes that put
down metrics that actually ever drove one.
Just my thoughts. Its a free country. if a harley person wants to pay
more for less its there god given right.


============================== certainly is a free country, and a free
usenet moto group.
What you have said has been around for over a hundred years here in the
good ole' USA, and that is, what ''makes'' of vehicles we like. Some
guys woldn't drive any thing but a Ford, or a Chevy, or a Dodge, or a
cadilac, and it goes on and on. I havent owned a sedan in 30 years. I
like vans and trucks.
Now me, I have never owned a Harley, probably never will. I'll admit I
like 'em. But I like buying a good deals. Honda for now, but I'd buy a
Yamaha, or a Kawa, in a Texas Minute. Don't want no Suzzi though, that
is just me. I like the sport bikes, but probably never will buy one. So,
all this is a matter of taste, and how we wanna spend our money, to me.
And what we think we'll look like, a on a certain type of a ''dern
motorcyle'', whatelse???
Heh-Heh-bjay~

'Ya'll take care'' --BJAY--
avgardbaer
2006-03-28 18:33:44 UTC
Permalink
My assertion were in response to a recent trip I took with a bunch of
harley dudes who frequent this forum. They all had crappy stuff to say
about my bike only because it was a yamaha. none spoke from fact. i
could care less if someone wants to pay porsche prices for an
oldsmobile .

i was just stating how I saw it based on infomed reading and technicall
specs. I used to have two harlleys . Loved them but was always
working on them. Thats when harley parts were priced for there value
and not there name. Would not own another one with all the other
better bikes out there today for the dollar just because that makes
sense to me.

Ive got a 2004 Goldwing and my New yamaha roadstar for different kinds
of riding. The Roastar is fully dressed with custom seats and vance
and hines pipes. great bike. With the custom leather, the chrome,
performnce upgrade, and the pipes I have about 15,500 in the bike. One
of the harley dudes bought a HD 2006 street glide, changed out the
stock pipes and with everything spent about 23000 before he has even
starting doing some of the things he wants to it. Its gear shifter
locked up on the ride and we had to work on it on the side of the road.
go figure
Rayvan
2006-03-28 19:28:55 UTC
Permalink
avgardbaer wrote:

I have no idea what or who you're replying to as you didn't quote any
relavance.
Post by avgardbaer
My assertion were in response to a recent trip I took with a bunch of
harley dudes who frequent this forum. They all had crappy stuff to say
about my bike only because it was a yamaha.
Do they have names? I haven't seen any posts to this affect at all in
the past few years...
Post by avgardbaer
none spoke from fact. i
could care less if someone wants to pay porsche prices for an
oldsmobile .
i was just stating how I saw it based on infomed reading and technicall
specs. I used to have two harlleys . Loved them but was always
working on them. Thats when harley parts were priced for there value
and not there name. Would not own another one with all the other
better bikes out there today for the dollar just because that makes
sense to me.
Other than this teeny bit of required maintenance and a brake light
stop switch, I've never needed to repair my '02 model. I've been over
200,000 miles on three H-D's and have never been stranded. They've
always started right up for me.
Post by avgardbaer
Ive got a 2004 Goldwing and my New yamaha roadstar for different kinds
of riding. The Roastar is fully dressed with custom seats and vance
and hines pipes. great bike. With the custom leather, the chrome,
performnce upgrade, and the pipes I have about 15,500 in the bike.
Interesting! So you've got more money in your Yamaha than I've got in
may Softail.
OTD with tax licence etc, my bike was about a thousand *less* than what
you've just quoted.
Bob Mann's FXD is even less expensive than my Softail was (figuring
exchange rates).
Post by avgardbaer
One
of the harley dudes bought a HD 2006 street glide, changed out the
stock pipes and with everything spent about 23000 before he has even
starting doing some of the things he wants to it. Its gear shifter
locked up on the ride and we had to work on it on the side of the road.
go figure
Yamaha is still wrealing over a huge transmission issues on those
Roadstars. No-one's perfect. "Go figure"
http://www.ohiolemonlaw.com/mll-site/mll-yamaha-alert.html

Now shut up and enjoy your bike! ;-)
--
Rayvan
avgardbaer
2006-03-28 19:39:56 UTC
Permalink
Ok, so you bought your bikes used. Not everyone can afford new. I
could have bought a used HD for les then i payed for my new Roadstar
with 6 year warranty and maintenance but I figured a new bike is what i
wanted. I could have bought a new harley for about 8 grand more with
no extended warranty and maintenance with less everything but I figured
there was something wrong with that equation. go figure

Dont know where your reading your garbage on roadsar transmissions.
they have great tech and reliability reviews, been around for several
years and have record sales. maybe you read it in easy rider magazine.
G. Rodgers
2006-03-28 20:11:04 UTC
Permalink
Post by avgardbaer
Dont know where your reading your garbage on roadsar transmissions.
they have great tech and reliability reviews, been around for several
years and have record sales. maybe you read it in easy rider magazine.
Maybe he read the "garbage" from YAMAHA corporate recalls, safety
filings, and notices to owners like this:

Yamaha Motorcycle Alert

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Do you (or did you) own any of these model motorcycles:

2001 Yamaha Road Star, Midnight Star, Road Star Silverado models (model
numbers: XV16, 16AN, 16ASN, 16 ATN)
2002 Yamaha Road Star, Limited Edition, Midnight Star, Star Warrior,
Silverado (model numbers: XV16, 16AP, 16APC, 16ASP, 16ASPC, 16ATP,
16ATPC, XV17 P, 17PC, 17PCP, 17PCPC, 17PCR, 17PCRC)
2003 Yamaha Road Star, Midnight Star, Limited Edition, Warrior and
Silverado (model numbers: XV16, 16AR, 16ARC, 16ALER, 16ALERC, 16ASR,
16ASRC, 16ATR, 16ATRC, XV17PCP, 17PCPC, 17PCR, 17PCRC)
Burdge Law Office is investigating a potential class action against
Yamaha on behalf of motorcycle owners, involving a deadly transmission
defect.

Filings by Yamaha with the Federal government's Safety Recall
"department" indicate that between 29,000 and 53,000 Yamaha motorcycles
manufactured with defective transmission parts that can cause the
transmission and rear wheel to lock up while in motion, which can throw
the driver out of control, possibly causing severe injury or even
death.

Yamaha has reported to the Federal government that only about 6,000 or
so of these motorcycles were repaired.

Repairs are apparently still taking place but many owners have yet to
find out if the "repair" will really take care of the problem. Many
other owners now question (with good reason) what their motorcycle will
be worth when they try to resell it.

Other defects may also exist in these and other model motorcycles.

If you've experienced these or similar problems and you are
interested in helping us in our investigation, please call
1-888-331-6422 or contact us.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Below is a list of files you can download to find out more details on
the Yamaha "locking transmission" defect:

2001 XV16 Recall Notice Remedy Instructions and TSB 09-02-03
2001 XV16 Recall Notice Remedy Instructions and TSB Draft - Undated
Manufacturer's Letter to NHTSA - 01-07-07
Manufacturer's Letter to NHTSA Defect and Non-Compliance Notice -
01-09-04
Manufacturer's Letter to NHTSA Defect and Non-Compliance Notice -
08-22-03
Manufacturer's Letter to NHTSA Defect and Non-Compliance Notice -
08-22-03
Manufacturer's Letter to NHTSA Manufacturer's Reply - 03-03-04
Manufacturer's Letter to NHTSA Notice to Dealers - 04-08-04
Manufacturer's Notice to Dealers - Kit Availibility - Undated
Manufacturer's Owner Notification Letter - 01-09-04
Manufacturer's Owner Notification Letter - 09-02-03
Manufacturer's Quarterly Repair Report to NHTSA - 04-08-04
Manufacturer's Quarterly Repair Report to NHTSA - 11-26-03
Manufacturer's Tech Exchange Notices to Dealers - 3-03-04
NHTSA Fax Acknowledgement to Manufacturer - 08-26-03
NHTSA Office of Defects Investigation Letter to Manufacturer - 08-20-03

State Motorcycle Lemon Law Summaries - 2004
NHTSA Recall Manual

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Frequently Asked Questions

What is the number of motorcycles affected ?

The discrepancy in the numbers comes from the numbers which Yamaha is,
itself, reporting to be affected. In one place in their documents the
number is a total of 29,139 and in another place they break down the
numbers and when you add them up the total is 52,193. In another
document, Yamaha says the total is 26,829. Part of the problem with the
counting process is that the quarterly "repaired reports" which Yamaha
has to file with the federal government (NTHSA), are required to be
made one for each recall. The more recall numbers involved, the more
reports. Here, Yamaha has itemized the defect as "Recalls M2003-011,
M2004-001, and M2004-002" (that is a direct quote from a Yamaha "Tech
Exchange" bulletin dated 030304 and sent to its dealers). I guess it
all depends on how you count, but one thing is for sure: one is too
many, 29k is too many, and 52k is clearly too many.

How many motorcycles have been repaired under this recall?

We can only go by what Yamaha itself reports the repair numbers to be.
On April 8, 2004 Yamaha filed its quarterly "repaired reports" for one
recall (signed by Russell D. Jura, Sr VP) and said that the number of
bikes involved in that one recall was 26,829 and only 6,073 had been
fixed. Yamaha only has to report numbers once each quarter and the most
recent numbers have not yet been posted by NTHSA on its website as of
July 14, 2004.

Has there ever been an injury?

Two drivers reported to have survived their crashes and complained
about the sudden rear wheel lockup (their complaints are on file at
NTHSA and were sent to Yamaha), but no one knows how many drivers did
not survive and the crash was blamed on "operator error" or something
else. In fact, in a letter sent to Yamaha on August 20, 2003, NTHSA
notified Yamaha that it had received complaints from Yamaha motorcycle
owners about "sudden, unforeseen, and unintended rear wheel lockup due
to transmission failure while the motor cycles were being ridden" and
that two of those alleged "a crash with injury". NTHSA sent Yamaha
copies of all the complaints at that time. However, years before that,
this problem was being talked about by Yamaha owners and denied by
Yamaha dealers.

Here's one owner's complaint in May 2001: "PURCHASED YAMAHA MIDNIGHT
ROADSTAR, LEARNED THROUGH INTERNET SITES OF TRANSMISSION PROBLEMS (LOCK
UPS RESULTING IN REAR TIRE LOCK UPS AND CRASHING - PEOPLE BEING INJURED
ETC.) SPOKE WITH YAMAHA DEALERS WHO "KNEW OF NO SUCH PROBLEM" -
RESULTING IN FEAR OF RIDING SAID VEHICLE (WHICH WE HAD HUNDREDS OF
DOLLARS INVOLVED IN UPGRADES AND ACCESSORIES) RESULTING IN TRADING IN
ON NEW VICTORY MOTORCYCLE TO ALIEVE THE FEAR (RESULTING IN LOSS OF
HUNDREDS OF DOLLARS). RIDING TWO UP AND WITH OUR KNOWLEDGE UNABLE TO
GET ANY RECOGNITION FROM DEALERS OF PROBLEMS WE SADLY GAVE IN AND
TRADED OFF AT MAXEYS YAMAHA DEALER IN OKLAHOMA CITY (ALSO CLAIMING NO
KNOWLEDGE OF PROBLEM. WE FELT VERY INSECURE RIDING THIS VEHICLE VIN #
WAS IN THE MIDDLE OF VEHICLES REPORTING PROBLEMS ON INTERNET CHAT TYPE
SITES (ONE IN PARTICULAR BEING YAMAHA STAR TOURING AND RIDING
ORGANIZATION). BASICALLY WE LOST LOTS OF MONEY AND DOWN TIME(NO RIDING)
(NO FUN) AGONIZING FEAR WHEN ON THE BIKE. RIDING AT LOW SPEEDS IN CASE
OF MALFUNCTION OCCURRENCE. IT WAS QUITE A BEAUTIFUL BIKE WITH ALL THAT
HAD BEEN DONE TO IT.*AK" (Nhtsa Office of Defect Investigations
document ID # : 10037500, dated May 9, 2001).

Is this a voluntary recall?

That depends on your point of view. When the Federal government's
Safety Recall "department" (at NTHSA) wants a manufacturer to recall a
defective product, it notifies the manufacturer of it. If the
manufacturer "voluntarily" does the recall, then the federal government
does not issue the recall. If the manufacturer refuses, then the
federal government can take steps to force the manufacturer to issue
the recall. In this case, Yamaha admitted to the federal government
that Yamaha U.S. had reported field failures (involving bikes built as
early as December 2000) to Yamaha Japan. If a manufacturer issues its
own recall, consumers easily get the impression that the recall was
issued purely out of concern for public safety. The manufacturer
salvages some good publicity and avoids the bad publicity of the
federal government forcing it to issue a recall. If you aren't sure how
the recall process works, check out the NTHSA Safety Recall
"Compendium" at http://www.nhtsa.dot.gov/cars/ and see for yourself.

Dependability and Safety.

No matter how long you've been riding a motorcycle, we all want safety
and dependability. After all, that's part of what you pay for when you
spend thousands of dollars on a motorcycle, new or not. The last thing
anyone wants when they are riding down the highway is for the rear
wheel to lock up and toss you off your bike. The problem here is that
NHTSA documents show reports of this defect existed for years before
the recalls started (voluntary or not) and you have to wonder ... if a
rider reports the rear wheel locking up for no reason at all, shouldn't
the manufacturer get right on the problem and find out what is going on
and why and get the word out to get all of them fixed immediately? Of
course they should and it shouldn't take two or three years to get it
done. No one buys a new motorcycle so they can park it in the garage
and watch the dust build up on it.


************************************************

letters and words, dude..... letters and words.
avgardbaer
2006-03-28 21:47:24 UTC
Permalink
go to
http://www.recall-warnings.com/auto-category-V.HARLEYDAVIDSON.html and
have your pick...hundreds of harley recalls. Im sure if you look hard
enough youll find equally disturbing info. No recall on the 2005 or
2006 roadstar that i am aware of for any reason.

Im only stating value and economics. Dont knowanyone with a yamaha
where its building up dust siiting in the garage. Know of several
harleys however because the owners cant afford to fix them.have fun.
ride hard, ride good, ride safe.
Venture Rider <dontbother@>
2006-03-28 21:51:52 UTC
Permalink
Post by avgardbaer
Dont knowanyone with a yamaha
where its building up dust siiting in the garage.
I put a tarp over mine.
--
"Beauty is in the eye of the beer holder."
avgardbaer
2006-03-28 21:56:20 UTC
Permalink
some specifc examples
http://www.recall-warnings.com/auto-content-56973.html

http://www.recall-warnings.com/auto-content-4986.html

http://www.recall-warnings.com/auto-content-37077.html

There lots more. feel free to peruse all those that dictate personal
injury and crash. Feel free to do a seacrh on all yamaha recalls that
note personal injury and crash. other ten the one you showed i cant
find any. Ther Harley list is daunting however.
Bob Mann
2006-03-28 20:13:29 UTC
Permalink
On 28 Mar 2006 11:39:56 -0800, "avgardbaer"
Post by avgardbaer
Ok, so you bought your bikes used. Not everyone can afford new. I
could have bought a used HD for les then i payed for my new Roadstar
with 6 year warranty and maintenance but I figured a new bike is what i
wanted. I could have bought a new harley for about 8 grand more with
no extended warranty and maintenance with less everything but I figured
there was something wrong with that equation. go figure
Dont know where your reading your garbage on roadsar transmissions.
they have great tech and reliability reviews, been around for several
years and have record sales. maybe you read it in easy rider magazine.
My neighbour's Road Star had to go in the shop for a trans rebuild due
to a recall.
Bob Mann
--
Hell, if your bike satisfies you, your wife isn't getting special
deliveries from the mailman, your dog still loves you and you're having
solid shits, what more do you want out of life!
Rayvan
2006-03-28 21:03:41 UTC
Permalink
Post by avgardbaer
Ok, so you bought your bikes used. Not everyone can afford new.
Newp! That was with two miles on the odometer.
Post by avgardbaer
I could have bought a used HD for les then i payed for my new Roadstar
with 6 year warranty and maintenance but I figured a new bike is what i
wanted. I could have bought a new harley for about 8 grand more with
no extended warranty and maintenance with less everything but I figured
there was something wrong with that equation. go figure
If you were in the market for a car, would you be price comparing a
Camry with an Acura RL in order to justify the Camry? That's what
you're doing. It makes no sense.

See; not all Harleys cost $24,500.00. Mine was about ten thousand less
than that out the door (all costs accounted for).
Post by avgardbaer
Dont know where your reading your garbage on roadsar transmissions.
they have great tech and reliability reviews, been around for several
years and have record sales. maybe you read it in easy rider magazine.
I don't subscribe to Easy Rider. I actaually heard about it in
Motorcycle Consumer's News. This version is from Delphi's Roadstar
Rider's Forum...

http://forums.delphiforums.com/1602/messages?msg=79872.1

What sucks, is that to perform the recall, they need to completley tear
down the perfectly good motor even though the problem is in the
transmissions. Bummer.
On a Harley (like your car), if there's ever a problem in the
transmission, you fix the transmission! You leave the motor alone.
Cool, huh?
--
Rayvan
Bob Mann
2006-03-28 19:50:58 UTC
Permalink
Post by Rayvan
Interesting! So you've got more money in your Yamaha than I've got in
may Softail.
OTD with tax licence etc, my bike was about a thousand *less* than what
you've just quoted.
Bob Mann's FXD is even less expensive than my Softail was (figuring
exchange rates).
Brand new FXD is $15,900 Canadian. Basically knock off 15% for US
Brand new left over 2005 FXD is $14,900 Canadian.
I paid more than that 2 years ago but the exchange rate was more like
30-35%.
It was about 2k more than the Road Star at the time.
A one year old Road Star would have been about $4k less than a one
year old FXD.

Still, this isn't the point.
The point is Bob Nixon hates both of these bikes.
Bob Mann
--
Hell, if your bike satisfies you, your wife isn't getting special
deliveries from the mailman, your dog still loves you and you're having
solid shits, what more do you want out of life!
avgardbaer
2006-03-28 20:02:05 UTC
Permalink
roadstar silverado stock can be bought new for about 12,900 american
with the extended warranty and maintenance and less then 12,000
without it. the add ons were custom leather seats, saddlebags, vance
&hines pipes, arlenn ness billet grips and other assorted chrome
dressup.

I dont know Bob Nion but everyone is entitled to an opinion be it
emotional or fact based, I just base mine on the clear study of
educated value and economics research. ride hard, ride good ride safe
Bob Mann
2006-03-28 20:12:28 UTC
Permalink
On 28 Mar 2006 12:02:05 -0800, "avgardbaer"
Post by avgardbaer
roadstar silverado stock can be bought new for about 12,900 american
with the extended warranty and maintenance and less then 12,000
without it. the add ons were custom leather seats, saddlebags, vance
&hines pipes, arlenn ness billet grips and other assorted chrome
dressup.
List price of an FXD is $12,200.
I don't know about the US but here I can buy one at list. Occasionally
reduced.
There are extended warranties available but I don't know the current
prices.
I do know that the out the door price of a Yamaha is less than list
but the difference isn't enough to cause an argument.
Post by avgardbaer
I dont know Bob Nion but everyone is entitled to an opinion be it
emotional or fact based, I just base mine on the clear study of
educated value and economics research. ride hard, ride good ride safe
Look back and read some of the tirades about cruisers, Harleys in
particular, and anything not Triumph.
Then you might understand why we are tired of people's opinions.
You have your opinion and want to express it. That opinion and the
expression thereof seems to be that you don't care for Harleys or
Harley riders. You don't particularly like to hear the opinions of
Harley riders when it comes to your choice of bike.
Myself, I don't give a shit what you ride or why but it gets damn
tiresome having to put up with this same post every week from someone
who just popped in to tell us what fools we are for riding Harleys.
Bob Mann
--
Hell, if your bike satisfies you, your wife isn't getting special
deliveries from the mailman, your dog still loves you and you're having
solid shits, what more do you want out of life!
avgardbaer
2006-03-28 21:11:01 UTC
Permalink
its a free country - if you dont want to read it then dont.....if you
find it tiresome the dont chime in. I never said I didnt like
harleys.. as a matter of fact i stated I used to own them and I enjoyed
them when i wasnt working on them. I also dont care what anyone buys
or rides, but dont talk shit when u cant back it up with any fact.

I believe my exact statements referred strictly to marketing,
economics and value. Check out JD Powers and you will see that I am not
off base unless u dispute there statsics as well. as far as harley
riders I have some very good friends who own and operate them and I
have a good time riding with. After seeing and trying my bike, they
have had issues justifying the financial outlay other then on an
emotional level.

I also know and have experienced the company of many ignorant harley
riders who talk out there ass when it comes to metrics. therefore my
post - obviously it generated a lot of feedback and I am glad to see
that people that understand economics and value tend to agree and that
most harley enthusiats base there opinions more on an emotional
response level. I believe it adds to my position.

As far as pricing of bikes, Ill add one thing. When comparing bikes
they should be comperable. Check the price of a new softail loaded - US.
Bob Mann
2006-03-29 03:29:30 UTC
Permalink
On 28 Mar 2006 13:11:01 -0800, "avgardbaer"
Post by avgardbaer
As far as pricing of bikes, Ill add one thing. When comparing bikes
they should be comperable. Check the price of a new softail loaded - US.
Closest Harley to a Road Star is a Fat Boy.
It is just over $20k
It also starts out with more chrome.
It doesn't matter anyway.
You got what you want.
Be happy.
Bob Mann
--
Hell, if your bike satisfies you, your wife isn't getting special
deliveries from the mailman, your dog still loves you and you're having
solid shits, what more do you want out of life!

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