Discussion:
All this talk of accidents!!!!
(too old to reply)
oasysco
2008-07-23 18:07:18 UTC
Permalink
Got me thinking... just the other day I was on the way home on the m/c
I never ride, going down a side street next to a small university,
ready to turn on another side street.

I had the proper turn signal on as a car approached the stop sign to
come out of the side street onto which I wanted to turn. That driver
couldn't have seen me turn my signal on, so for all she knew, I may
have had the signal on for the last several miles and just didn't
realize it.

Well, just before I started to make the the turn, she looks straight
at me, looks the other way, back at me, and then pulls right out. If I
hadn't actually been turning, I would have been toast.

Even as a car driver, we learned that you NEVER pull out into an
intersection for which you do not have the ROW in front of a vehicle
that has his turn signals on. You just don't know if he is turning or
not and the fault will be yours. It's even more imperative not to do
it in front of a MC due to the damage you can do.

For me, it was a good reminder of how little respect mc riders get on
the road that some drivers treat us as nothing more than a bicycle or
pedestrian - surely, we can get out of their way easily enough.

Secondly, it was a good reminder on how important it is to make sure
you turn off those signals as some cagers combine their disrepect for
motorcyclists with being in a hurry.

Greg
oasysco
2008-07-23 19:36:58 UTC
Permalink
Rather than bitch about it, I bought this...

http://glensvtxgarage.com/turnsignal_beeper.html

The cheapie at the end. I have an audible and fairly loud signal click
like you get on cars on my 80CC Honda scooter. This item gives me a
100db beep when I leabe my turn signal on. It's $27 well spent, AFAIC.

One thing about Honda VTX's, there's a boatload of aftermarket gizmos
and accessories that are made just for those bikes. I assume other
modesl under other makes have a similar fan following and some smart
person has developed easy, cool solutions for those as well.

Greg
Road Glidin' Don
2008-07-23 19:51:53 UTC
Permalink
Post by oasysco
Rather than bitch about it, I bought this...
http://glensvtxgarage.com/turnsignal_beeper.html
The cheapie at the end. I have an audible and fairly loud signal click
like you get on cars on my 80CC Honda scooter. This item gives me a
100db beep when I leabe my turn signal on. It's $27 well spent, AFAIC.
Harley signals self-cancel.
Sean_Q_
2008-07-23 19:55:55 UTC
Permalink
Post by Road Glidin' Don
Harley signals self-cancel.
Sometimes.

SQ
Road Glidin' Don
2008-07-23 21:03:46 UTC
Permalink
Post by Sean_Q_
Post by Road Glidin' Don
Harley signals self-cancel.
Sometimes.
Eventually.
The Older Gentleman
2008-07-23 21:20:05 UTC
Permalink
Post by Road Glidin' Don
Post by Sean_Q_
Post by Road Glidin' Don
Harley signals self-cancel.
Sometimes.
Eventually.
When the battery runs down ;-)
--
BMW K1100LT Ducati 750SS Yamaha XT600E Honda CB400F MZ TS250/1
chateau dot murray at idnet dot com
"What you're proposing to do will involve a lot of time
and hassle for no tangible benefit."
Bob Myers
2008-07-23 21:55:16 UTC
Permalink
Post by Road Glidin' Don
Post by Sean_Q_
Post by Road Glidin' Don
Harley signals self-cancel.
Sometimes.
Eventually.
Never having owned a Harley, and having only those
sorts of turn signals which will continue merrily blinking
away until you thumb the button - what is it that Harley
uses to figure out when to "self-cancel" (when/if they
do, based on the qualifiers I see above)?

Always wondered if it wouldn't be sensible for the things
just to cancel on the next upshift after I first turn the
blinker on...

Bob M.
Road Glidin' Don
2008-07-23 22:58:22 UTC
Permalink
Post by Bob Myers
Post by Road Glidin' Don
Post by Sean_Q_
Post by Road Glidin' Don
Harley signals self-cancel.
Sometimes.
Eventually.
Never having owned a Harley, and having only those
sorts of turn signals which will continue merrily blinking
away until you thumb the button - what is it that Harley
uses to figure out when to "self-cancel" (when/if they
do, based on the qualifiers I see above)?
Always wondered if it wouldn't be sensible for the things
just to cancel on the next upshift after I first turn the
blinker on...
The signals on the Harley take input from the speedometer to judge
distance travelled and self-cancel after the bike has travelled that
distance (i.e. with the bike standing still, they won't cancel). I
know this partly because when the speedometer pickup on my '98 Road
Glide wore out, the signals no longer canceled.

The newer Harleys also incorporate some sort of sensor that detect the
lean or G forces from cornering, so, in addition the the above-
mentioned mode, they cancel automatically right after the turn is
completed.

Another difference is that you have a turn signal on each side of the
handlebar - a left button for left turns, a right button for right
turns. More intuitive and less attention needs to be paid than
sliding a switch left and right.
BryanUT
2008-07-23 23:16:48 UTC
Permalink
Post by Road Glidin' Don
Another difference is that you have a turn signal on each side of the
handlebar - a left button for left turns, a right button for right
turns. More intuitive and less attention needs to be paid than
sliding a switch left and right.
I'm sorry, that is just weird.

Right hand is starter/kill switch. Left hand is horn signals.

Besides, who needs self canceling turn signals? Sheesh. Motorcycles aren't
supposed to be 2 wheeled cages.
Charlie Siegrist
2008-07-26 00:03:28 UTC
Permalink
news:aeee53b4-cd75-477d-b891-
Post by Road Glidin' Don
Another difference is that you have a turn signal on each side of the
handlebar - a left button for left turns, a right button for right
turns. More intuitive and less attention needs to be paid than sliding
a switch left and right.
I'm sorry, that is just weird.
Right hand is starter/kill switch. Left hand is horn signals.
I don't see the weirdness. Kill switch and starter on the right, horn on
the left. What does that have to do with turn signals?
Besides, who needs self canceling turn signals? Sheesh. Motorcycles
aren't supposed to be 2 wheeled cages.
Don't need ABS or windshields or water cooling either, but sometimes
little luxuries are nice to have.
MoParMaN
2008-07-26 00:28:43 UTC
Permalink
Post by Charlie Siegrist
news:aeee53b4-cd75-477d-b891-
Post by Road Glidin' Don
Another difference is that you have a turn signal on each side of the
handlebar - a left button for left turns, a right button for right
turns. More intuitive and less attention needs to be paid than sliding
a switch left and right.
I'm sorry, that is just weird.
Right hand is starter/kill switch. Left hand is horn signals.
I don't see the weirdness. Kill switch and starter on the right, horn on
the left. What does that have to do with turn signals?
Besides, who needs self canceling turn signals? Sheesh. Motorcycles
aren't supposed to be 2 wheeled cages.
Don't need ABS or windshields or water cooling either, but sometimes
little luxuries are nice to have.
Yeah, and a big nice soft seat works too.
--
MoParMaN--
Bill Shatzer
2008-07-24 00:09:17 UTC
Permalink
Road Glidin' Don wrote:

-snip-
Post by Road Glidin' Don
The newer Harleys also incorporate some sort of sensor that detect the
lean or G forces from cornering, so, in addition the the above-
mentioned mode, they cancel automatically right after the turn is
completed.
Harleys lean while cornering? :-)
Timberwoof
2008-07-24 00:21:13 UTC
Permalink
Post by Bill Shatzer
-snip-
Post by Road Glidin' Don
The newer Harleys also incorporate some sort of sensor that detect the
lean or G forces from cornering, so, in addition the the above-
mentioned mode, they cancel automatically right after the turn is
completed.
Harleys lean while cornering? :-)
Well, no; that's how the mercury-switch signal-canceler works. }: )
If the bike leans, you can't use a gravity-based system but have ot use
a gyroscope to detect that change.
--
Timberwoof <me at timberwoof dot com>
faq: http://www.timberwoof.com/motorcycle/faq.shtml
David T. Ashley
2008-07-24 00:05:41 UTC
Permalink
Post by Bob Myers
Post by Road Glidin' Don
Post by Sean_Q_
Post by Road Glidin' Don
Harley signals self-cancel.
Sometimes.
Eventually.
Never having owned a Harley, and having only those
sorts of turn signals which will continue merrily blinking
away until you thumb the button - what is it that Harley
uses to figure out when to "self-cancel" (when/if they
do, based on the qualifiers I see above)?
Always wondered if it wouldn't be sensible for the things
just to cancel on the next upshift after I first turn the
blinker on...
The signals on the Harley take input from the speedometer to judge
distance travelled and self-cancel after the bike has travelled that
distance (i.e. with the bike standing still, they won't cancel). I
know this partly because when the speedometer pickup on my '98 Road
Glide wore out, the signals no longer canceled.
The newer Harleys also incorporate some sort of sensor that detect the
lean or G forces from cornering, so, in addition the the above-
mentioned mode, they cancel automatically right after the turn is
completed.
This trend is in autos as well. Once you have one or two electronic modules
in the vehicle, you can do away with the turn signal flasher and do it all
in software. So, you save some wiring, add some features, and just add a
bit of software to a box somewhere.

Pretty much you can put everything under software control except brakes and
headlights/taillights ... if anything else fails you can get it repaired as
soon as possible.
Post by Bob Myers
Another difference is that you have a turn signal on each side of the
handlebar - a left button for left turns, a right button for right
turns. More intuitive and less attention needs to be paid than
sliding a switch left and right.
Um ... if you're an idiot!

What makes it easier to have two controls than one? That doesn't make
sense.
Calgary
2008-07-24 00:39:01 UTC
Permalink
Post by David T. Ashley
Post by Bob Myers
Post by Road Glidin' Don
Post by Sean_Q_
Post by Road Glidin' Don
Harley signals self-cancel.
Sometimes.
Eventually.
Never having owned a Harley, and having only those
sorts of turn signals which will continue merrily blinking
away until you thumb the button - what is it that Harley
uses to figure out when to "self-cancel" (when/if they
do, based on the qualifiers I see above)?
Always wondered if it wouldn't be sensible for the things
just to cancel on the next upshift after I first turn the
blinker on...
The signals on the Harley take input from the speedometer to judge
distance travelled and self-cancel after the bike has travelled that
distance (i.e. with the bike standing still, they won't cancel). I
know this partly because when the speedometer pickup on my '98 Road
Glide wore out, the signals no longer canceled.
The newer Harleys also incorporate some sort of sensor that detect the
lean or G forces from cornering, so, in addition the the above-
mentioned mode, they cancel automatically right after the turn is
completed.
This trend is in autos as well. Once you have one or two electronic modules
in the vehicle, you can do away with the turn signal flasher and do it all
in software. So, you save some wiring, add some features, and just add a
bit of software to a box somewhere.
Pretty much you can put everything under software control except brakes and
headlights/taillights ... if anything else fails you can get it repaired as
soon as possible.
Post by Bob Myers
Another difference is that you have a turn signal on each side of the
handlebar - a left button for left turns, a right button for right
turns. More intuitive and less attention needs to be paid than
sliding a switch left and right.
Um ... if you're an idiot!
What makes it easier to have two controls than one? That doesn't make
sense.
I ride both a metric and a Harley and I agree the HD signals feel more
natural to use and the self canceling mechanism works very well.

It's all a matter of preference though.


--
See Ya On The Road


2000 Yamaha Venture Millennium
2004 HD Road King

Life is not measured by the number of breaths we take,
but by the moments that take our breath away.
Beauregard T. Shagnasty
2008-07-24 01:14:21 UTC
Permalink
Post by Calgary
Post by David T. Ashley
Post by Road Glidin' Don
Another difference is that you have a turn signal on each side of
the handlebar - a left button for left turns, a right button for
right turns. More intuitive and less attention needs to be paid
than sliding a switch left and right.
Um ... if you're an idiot!
What makes it easier to have two controls than one? That doesn't
make sense.
I ride both a metric and a Harley and I agree the HD signals feel
more natural to use and the self canceling mechanism works very well.
Beemers too have had a left and right button for years. I like 'em.
--
-bts
-Friends don't let friends drive Windows
Turby
2008-07-24 07:57:18 UTC
Permalink
On Wed, 23 Jul 2008 21:14:21 -0400, "Beauregard T. Shagnasty"
Post by Beauregard T. Shagnasty
Post by Calgary
Post by David T. Ashley
Post by Road Glidin' Don
Another difference is that you have a turn signal on each side of
the handlebar - a left button for left turns, a right button for
right turns. More intuitive and less attention needs to be paid
than sliding a switch left and right.
Um ... if you're an idiot!
What makes it easier to have two controls than one? That doesn't
make sense.
I ride both a metric and a Harley and I agree the HD signals feel
more natural to use and the self canceling mechanism works very well.
Beemers too have had a left and right button for years. I like 'em.
Yeah. I hated 'em. I figured it was another teutonic screwup.
--
Turby the Turbosurfer
Beauregard T. Shagnasty
2008-07-24 12:23:57 UTC
Permalink
Post by Turby
Post by Beauregard T. Shagnasty
Post by Calgary
I ride both a metric and a Harley and I agree the HD signals feel
more natural to use and the self canceling mechanism works very well.
Beemers too have had a left and right button for years. I like 'em.
Yeah. I hated 'em. I figured it was another teutonic screwup.
It took me awhile to get used to them (a week?) when I bought the '86
K75S. Left- and right-buttons plus a cancel button by right thumb. They
also self-canceled "after 300m or 4s, whichever was longer." Or
something like that.

My oilhead doesn't self-cancel.
--
-bts
-Friends don't let friends drive Windows
Road Glidin' Don
2008-07-24 00:57:39 UTC
Permalink
On Wed, 23 Jul 2008 20:05:41 -0400, "David T. Ashley" <***@e3ft.com>
wrote:

<snip>
Post by David T. Ashley
Post by Road Glidin' Don
Another difference is that you have a turn signal on each side of the
handlebar - a left button for left turns, a right button for right
turns. More intuitive and less attention needs to be paid than
sliding a switch left and right.
Um ... if you're an idiot!
What makes it easier to have two controls than one? That doesn't make
sense.
Someday, when you've tried both types of controls (as I have), you'll
be in a position to have an informed opinion.

A quick stab of a button (in the direction you want to go, just like
counter-steering) distracts from attention less than sliding a switch
left or right (and then finding the middle position again to cancel it
afterwards).

Mechanically it's probably also simpler to make the push-only button
(which doesn't stay down after it's pushed) have a self-cancel
function (which is why other bikes don't/can't do it?). With a
sliding switch, you'd have to mechanically move it back to the center
position. I'll take the Harley style, thank you.
David T. Ashley
2008-07-24 03:05:07 UTC
Permalink
Post by Road Glidin' Don
<snip>
Post by David T. Ashley
Post by Road Glidin' Don
Another difference is that you have a turn signal on each side of the
handlebar - a left button for left turns, a right button for right
turns. More intuitive and less attention needs to be paid than
sliding a switch left and right.
Um ... if you're an idiot!
What makes it easier to have two controls than one? That doesn't make
sense.
Someday, when you've tried both types of controls (as I have), you'll
be in a position to have an informed opinion.
You are probably right. I need to zip it until and unless I have experience
with both.

My only observation is that the "thumbspace" on both sides is already a bit
dense. Adding another control seems ... not right. Somewhere all in there
you've got LO/HI beam, turn signals, RUN/OFF, horn, hazard flashers (on some
bikes), etc. Splitting the turn signal into two controls when one is enough
seems wrong.
Post by Road Glidin' Don
A quick stab of a button (in the direction you want to go, just like
counter-steering) distracts from attention less than sliding a switch
left or right (and then finding the middle position again to cancel it
afterwards).
With the several Japanese bikes I've operated and two I've owned, you push
the turn signal control straight inward (towards the center of the handlebar
tube) to cancel. You don't need to find center.
Post by Road Glidin' Don
Mechanically it's probably also simpler to make the push-only button
(which doesn't stay down after it's pushed) have a self-cancel
function (which is why other bikes don't/can't do it?). With a
sliding switch, you'd have to mechanically move it back to the center
position. I'll take the Harley style, thank you.
With the several Japanese bikes I've operated and two I've owned, you push
the turn signal control straight inward (towards the center of the handlebar
tube) to cancel. You don't need to find center.

My vision of the "ideal turn signal" would be just as now on a Japanese bike
except it cancels automatically if you don't.

On another note, as a first time rider last year I may have once or twice
: ) ridden for miles with the turn signal going. I am now naturally a lot
better at it. But, once or twice a week I might look down and discover ...
well, I won't admit to it.
Charlie Siegrist
2008-07-26 00:10:10 UTC
Permalink
Post by Road Glidin' Don
With a
sliding switch, you'd have to mechanically move it back to the center
position.
Just FYI, the Triumph signal makes a bit more sense. It has a spring
return that takes the slider back to center immediately, and the signal
is cancelled by pushing a button at the center of the slider.
Post by Road Glidin' Don
I'll take the Harley style, thank you.
Yeah, the Harley style is definitely a better way. Sometimes we just get
used to the old way of doing things. I just drove my old Jeep 350 miles
across the state, and for the next three days my left foot kept trying to
find the clutch pedal in my personal truck and the company rig.
Turby
2008-07-26 06:31:47 UTC
Permalink
On Fri, 25 Jul 2008 19:10:10 -0500, Charlie Siegrist
Post by Charlie Siegrist
Post by Road Glidin' Don
I'll take the Harley style, thank you.
Yeah, the Harley style is definitely a better way.
Really? Would you prefer two turn signals on your cage? I doubt many
people would put up with that. I sure wouldn't.
--
Turby the Turbosurfer
Calgary
2008-07-26 14:49:29 UTC
Permalink
Post by Turby
On Fri, 25 Jul 2008 19:10:10 -0500, Charlie Siegrist
Post by Charlie Siegrist
Post by Road Glidin' Don
I'll take the Harley style, thank you.
Yeah, the Harley style is definitely a better way.
Really? Would you prefer two turn signals on your cage? I doubt many
people would put up with that. I sure wouldn't.
I think most people prefer four wheels in there cage too. ;-)


--
See Ya On The Road


2000 Yamaha Venture Millennium
2004 HD Road King

Life is not measured by the number of breaths we take,
but by the moments that take our breath away.
Charlie Siegrist
2008-07-28 03:09:04 UTC
Permalink
Post by Turby
On Fri, 25 Jul 2008 19:10:10 -0500, Charlie Siegrist
Post by Charlie Siegrist
Post by Road Glidin' Don
I'll take the Harley style, thank you.
Yeah, the Harley style is definitely a better way.
Really? Would you prefer two turn signals on your cage? I doubt many
people would put up with that. I sure wouldn't.
Nope, I sure wouldn't either. I want four of 'em. RF LF RR LR.
Chumbawumba
2008-07-26 11:50:57 UTC
Permalink
Post by Charlie Siegrist
Post by Road Glidin' Don
With a
sliding switch, you'd have to mechanically move it back to the center
position.
Just FYI, the Triumph signal makes a bit more sense. It has a spring
return that takes the slider back to center immediately, and the signal
is cancelled by pushing a button at the center of the slider.
My Honda Shadow also has such a cancelling mechanism. I rode a Harley
Softtail with the individual turn signal buttons but didn't care for it
especially when trying to operate the clutch lever at the same time.
Robert Bolton
2008-07-26 16:53:06 UTC
Permalink
On Sat, 26 Jul 2008 11:50:57 GMT, "Chumbawumba"
Post by Chumbawumba
Post by Charlie Siegrist
Post by Road Glidin' Don
With a
sliding switch, you'd have to mechanically move it back to the center
position.
Just FYI, the Triumph signal makes a bit more sense. It has a spring
return that takes the slider back to center immediately, and the signal
is cancelled by pushing a button at the center of the slider.
Kawasaki Concours and Honda Nighthawk too. I'd guess that is the
standard, at least in the US.
Post by Chumbawumba
My Honda Shadow also has such a cancelling mechanism. I rode a Harley
Softtail with the individual turn signal buttons but didn't care for it
especially when trying to operate the clutch lever at the same time.
The turn signal switch on your Shadow isn't on the clutch side of the
bars? Interesting. I disliked the Harley two switch when I first got
the bike but got used to it. Now my only problem is using the wrong
technique when I switch bikes. I wish the self canceling timer would
run just a little longer. I think it self-cancels after 6(?) seconds
when it's activated.

Robert
Chumbawumba
2008-07-26 19:08:45 UTC
Permalink
Post by Robert Bolton
On Sat, 26 Jul 2008 11:50:57 GMT, "Chumbawumba"
Post by Chumbawumba
Post by Charlie Siegrist
Just FYI, the Triumph signal makes a bit more sense. It has a spring
return that takes the slider back to center immediately, and the signal
is cancelled by pushing a button at the center of the slider.
Kawasaki Concours and Honda Nighthawk too. I'd guess that is the
standard, at least in the US.
Post by Chumbawumba
My Honda Shadow also has such a cancelling mechanism. I rode a Harley
Softtail with the individual turn signal buttons but didn't care for it
especially when trying to operate the clutch lever at the same time.
The turn signal switch on your Shadow isn't on the clutch side of the
bars? Interesting. I disliked the Harley two switch when I first got
the bike but got used to it. Now my only problem is using the wrong
technique when I switch bikes. I wish the self canceling timer would
run just a little longer. I think it self-cancels after 6(?) seconds
when it's activated.
Robert
My turn signal switch is on the left, the same side as my clutch lever. I
don't know why you thought it wasn't.
Robert Bolton
2008-07-27 15:55:26 UTC
Permalink
On Sat, 26 Jul 2008 19:08:45 GMT, "Chumbawumba"
Post by Chumbawumba
Post by Robert Bolton
On Sat, 26 Jul 2008 11:50:57 GMT, "Chumbawumba"
Post by Chumbawumba
Post by Charlie Siegrist
Just FYI, the Triumph signal makes a bit more sense. It has a spring
return that takes the slider back to center immediately, and the signal
is cancelled by pushing a button at the center of the slider.
Kawasaki Concours and Honda Nighthawk too. I'd guess that is the
standard, at least in the US.
Post by Chumbawumba
My Honda Shadow also has such a cancelling mechanism. I rode a Harley
Softtail with the individual turn signal buttons but didn't care for it
especially when trying to operate the clutch lever at the same time.
The turn signal switch on your Shadow isn't on the clutch side of the
bars? Interesting. I disliked the Harley two switch when I first got
the bike but got used to it. Now my only problem is using the wrong
technique when I switch bikes. I wish the self canceling timer would
run just a little longer. I think it self-cancels after 6(?) seconds
when it's activated.
Robert
My turn signal switch is on the left, the same side as my clutch lever. I
don't know why you thought it wasn't.
Sorry, I have a bad habit of alluding to what I mean to say. That's
probably because I don't communicate well. Here's your statement I
was referring to -
Post by Chumbawumba
Post by Robert Bolton
Post by Chumbawumba
I rode a Harley
Softtail with the individual turn signal buttons but didn't care for it
especially when trying to operate the clutch lever at the same time.
Both bikes have a turn signal switch on the clutch side while the
Softail has an additional turn signal switch on the throttle side.
Reading the switch interrupted your clutch handling caused me to think
you were talking about the clutch side switch. I don't understand why
the Harley's switches would affect clutch operation any more than your
Shadow would because you Shadow also has a switch on the clutch side.
Were you're saying the throttle side switch affects clutch operations?

Robert
Road Glidin' Don
2008-07-27 18:23:15 UTC
Permalink
On Sun, 27 Jul 2008 07:55:26 -0800, Robert Bolton
Post by Robert Bolton
On Sat, 26 Jul 2008 19:08:45 GMT, "Chumbawumba"
Post by Chumbawumba
Post by Robert Bolton
On Sat, 26 Jul 2008 11:50:57 GMT, "Chumbawumba"
Post by Chumbawumba
Post by Charlie Siegrist
Just FYI, the Triumph signal makes a bit more sense. It has a spring
return that takes the slider back to center immediately, and the signal
is cancelled by pushing a button at the center of the slider.
Kawasaki Concours and Honda Nighthawk too. I'd guess that is the
standard, at least in the US.
Post by Chumbawumba
My Honda Shadow also has such a cancelling mechanism. I rode a Harley
Softtail with the individual turn signal buttons but didn't care for it
especially when trying to operate the clutch lever at the same time.
The turn signal switch on your Shadow isn't on the clutch side of the
bars? Interesting. I disliked the Harley two switch when I first got
the bike but got used to it. Now my only problem is using the wrong
technique when I switch bikes. I wish the self canceling timer would
run just a little longer. I think it self-cancels after 6(?) seconds
when it's activated.
Robert
My turn signal switch is on the left, the same side as my clutch lever. I
don't know why you thought it wasn't.
Sorry, I have a bad habit of alluding to what I mean to say. That's
probably because I don't communicate well. Here's your statement I
was referring to -
Post by Chumbawumba
Post by Robert Bolton
Post by Chumbawumba
I rode a Harley
Softtail with the individual turn signal buttons but didn't care for it
especially when trying to operate the clutch lever at the same time.
Both bikes have a turn signal switch on the clutch side while the
Softail has an additional turn signal switch on the throttle side.
Reading the switch interrupted your clutch handling caused me to think
you were talking about the clutch side switch. I don't understand why
the Harley's switches would affect clutch operation any more than your
Shadow would because you Shadow also has a switch on the clutch side.
Were you're saying the throttle side switch affects clutch operations?
Whether he meant to or not, Chumbawumba's statement does raise a
difficult-to-resolve problem with self-cancelling signals though.

When you're going at 60 mph down a highway or secondary road and want
to take a turn-off, the signals tend to not stay on long enough before
self-cancelling - having cancelled before you make the turn.

There are 2 ways around this.

1. Manually cancel the signal well ahead of the time you know it will
self-cancel and then turn the signal on again (2 pushes of the
button). Repeat as necessary.

2. You hold on the signal button down and don't let it go until you
begin your first downshift because the distance-countdown calculation
doesn't begin until the button is released. That can be good enough,
depending on how you ride, but this can still be a problem if you're
slowing down and downshifting at a lesiurely pace (the signal might
still self-cancel before you get to the turn).

This can cause you to have to look down at your indicators (which is
distracting), to see if the signal has cancelled yet or not, so you
can stab the button to turn it on again. You don't want to give the
signal another push too early (while it's still signalling) because
that will just turn off the signal, which is the opposite of what you
want.

I've noticed this shortcoming has been alleviated somewhat in the
newer Harleys. They now have a more liberal (longer) countdown
distance before self-cancelling (it seems, anyway). This may be
because they now incorporate some sort of turn-detection mechanism and
can, for that reason, justify leaving the signal on longer in other
circumstances.

This is a problem inherent to self-cancelling though. Having a single
switch only on the left would not help.
Chumbawumba
2008-07-27 22:33:47 UTC
Permalink
Post by Robert Bolton
On Sat, 26 Jul 2008 19:08:45 GMT, "Chumbawumba"
Post by Chumbawumba
Post by Robert Bolton
On Sat, 26 Jul 2008 11:50:57 GMT, "Chumbawumba"
My turn signal switch is on the left, the same side as my clutch lever. I
don't know why you thought it wasn't.
Sorry, I have a bad habit of alluding to what I mean to say. That's
probably because I don't communicate well. Here's your statement I
was referring to -
Post by Chumbawumba
Post by Robert Bolton
Post by Chumbawumba
I rode a Harley
Softtail with the individual turn signal buttons but didn't care for it
especially when trying to operate the clutch lever at the same time.
Both bikes have a turn signal switch on the clutch side while the
Softail has an additional turn signal switch on the throttle side.
Reading the switch interrupted your clutch handling caused me to think
you were talking about the clutch side switch. I don't understand why
the Harley's switches would affect clutch operation any more than your
Shadow would because you Shadow also has a switch on the clutch side.
Were you're saying the throttle side switch affects clutch operations?
Robert
I guess I didn't write what I wanted to say, Robert. What I meant was, with
the Harley I had to keep the left turn signal switch pressed while I also
operated the clutch, when making a left turn. I was used to clicking the
Honda turn signal switch and then operating the clutch while still gripping
the handlebar with my thumb. I just found the Harley switch a little awkward
compared to what I was used to. Both types have their good points, though.
You can't leave the Harley turn signals running after you make your turn,
while the Honda only needs to be pressed to cancel.
Calgary
2008-07-27 23:09:08 UTC
Permalink
On Sun, 27 Jul 2008 22:33:47 GMT, "Chumbawumba"
Post by Chumbawumba
Post by Robert Bolton
On Sat, 26 Jul 2008 19:08:45 GMT, "Chumbawumba"
Post by Chumbawumba
Post by Robert Bolton
On Sat, 26 Jul 2008 11:50:57 GMT, "Chumbawumba"
My turn signal switch is on the left, the same side as my clutch lever. I
don't know why you thought it wasn't.
Sorry, I have a bad habit of alluding to what I mean to say. That's
probably because I don't communicate well. Here's your statement I
was referring to -
Post by Chumbawumba
Post by Robert Bolton
Post by Chumbawumba
I rode a Harley
Softtail with the individual turn signal buttons but didn't care for it
especially when trying to operate the clutch lever at the same time.
Both bikes have a turn signal switch on the clutch side while the
Softail has an additional turn signal switch on the throttle side.
Reading the switch interrupted your clutch handling caused me to think
you were talking about the clutch side switch. I don't understand why
the Harley's switches would affect clutch operation any more than your
Shadow would because you Shadow also has a switch on the clutch side.
Were you're saying the throttle side switch affects clutch operations?
Robert
I guess I didn't write what I wanted to say, Robert. What I meant was, with
the Harley I had to keep the left turn signal switch pressed while I also
operated the clutch, when making a left turn.
Why would you have to keep the left turn signal switch pressed?
Post by Chumbawumba
I was used to clicking the
Honda turn signal switch and then operating the clutch while still gripping
the handlebar with my thumb. I just found the Harley switch a little awkward
compared to what I was used to. Both types have their good points, though.
You can't leave the Harley turn signals running after you make your turn,
while the Honda only needs to be pressed to cancel.
Harleys have maybe the best turn signal canceling than any other bike
I have ridden. Mine cancels virtually every time after going around a
corner.


--
See Ya On The Road


2000 Yamaha Venture Millennium
2004 HD Road King

Life is not measured by the number of breaths we take,
but by the moments that take our breath away.
Chumbawumba
2008-07-27 23:30:38 UTC
Permalink
Post by Calgary
On Sun, 27 Jul 2008 22:33:47 GMT, "Chumbawumba"
Post by Chumbawumba
I guess I didn't write what I wanted to say, Robert. What I meant was, with
the Harley I had to keep the left turn signal switch pressed while I also
operated the clutch, when making a left turn.
Why would you have to keep the left turn signal switch pressed?
On the '89 Softtail I rode, if you didn't keep the button pressed, the turn
signal stopped operating.
Calgary
2008-07-27 23:44:18 UTC
Permalink
On Sun, 27 Jul 2008 23:30:38 GMT, "Chumbawumba"
Post by Chumbawumba
Post by Calgary
On Sun, 27 Jul 2008 22:33:47 GMT, "Chumbawumba"
Post by Chumbawumba
I guess I didn't write what I wanted to say, Robert. What I meant was, with
the Harley I had to keep the left turn signal switch pressed while I also
operated the clutch, when making a left turn.
Why would you have to keep the left turn signal switch pressed?
On the '89 Softtail I rode, if you didn't keep the button pressed, the turn
signal stopped operating.
Do you think it might have been broken?


--
See Ya On The Road


2000 Yamaha Venture Millennium
2004 HD Road King

Life is not measured by the number of breaths we take,
but by the moments that take our breath away.
The Older Gentleman
2008-07-28 06:25:05 UTC
Permalink
Post by Calgary
On Sun, 27 Jul 2008 23:30:38 GMT, "Chumbawumba"
Post by Chumbawumba
Post by Calgary
On Sun, 27 Jul 2008 22:33:47 GMT, "Chumbawumba"
Post by Chumbawumba
I guess I didn't write what I wanted to say, Robert. What I meant was, with
the Harley I had to keep the left turn signal switch pressed while I also
operated the clutch, when making a left turn.
Why would you have to keep the left turn signal switch pressed?
On the '89 Softtail I rode, if you didn't keep the button pressed, the turn
signal stopped operating.
Do you think it might have been broken?
Older generation Harleys were built that way.

Er, that is, not broken,[1] but with indicator switches that worked only
as long as you pressed them. Even I know this. That said, I thought
they'd abandoned it as a bad idea by 1989, because (as a I remember a UK
roadtest pointing out), trying to keep the right hand indicator on while
braking and blipping the throttle for downchanges was a bit tricky.

[1] Actually, on reflection....
--
BMW K1100LT Ducati 750SS Yamaha XT600E Honda CB400F MZ TS250/1
chateau dot murray at idnet dot com
"What you're proposing to do will involve a lot of time
and hassle for no tangible benefit."
Road Glidin' Don
2008-07-28 15:33:38 UTC
Permalink
Post by The Older Gentleman
Post by Calgary
On Sun, 27 Jul 2008 23:30:38 GMT, "Chumbawumba"
Post by Chumbawumba
Post by Calgary
On Sun, 27 Jul 2008 22:33:47 GMT, "Chumbawumba"
Post by Chumbawumba
I guess I didn't write what I wanted to say, Robert. What I meant was, with
the Harley I had to keep the left turn signal switch pressed while I also
operated the clutch, when making a left turn.
Why would you have to keep the left turn signal switch pressed?
On the '89 Softtail I rode, if you didn't keep the button pressed, the turn
signal stopped operating.
Do you think it might have been broken?
Older generation Harleys were built that way.
Er, that is, not broken,[1] but with indicator switches that worked only
as long as you pressed them. Even I know this. That said, I thought
they'd abandoned it as a bad idea by 1989, because (as a I remember a UK
roadtest pointing out), trying to keep the right hand indicator on while
braking and blipping the throttle for downchanges was a bit tricky.
[1] Actually, on reflection....
Yep, that's the way they used to function. The signals on my father's
'84 FXRS work that way. Gotta hold them down. Fortunately, that got
changed a long time ago, as you say.
Chumbawumba
2008-07-28 20:39:40 UTC
Permalink
Post by Calgary
On Sun, 27 Jul 2008 23:30:38 GMT, "Chumbawumba"
Post by Chumbawumba
Post by Calgary
Post by Chumbawumba
I guess I didn't write what I wanted to say, Robert. What I meant was, with
the Harley I had to keep the left turn signal switch pressed while I also
operated the clutch, when making a left turn.
Why would you have to keep the left turn signal switch pressed?
On the '89 Softtail I rode, if you didn't keep the button pressed, the turn
signal stopped operating.
Do you think it might have been broken?
I've no doubt it was but I didn't know it at the time. It was my buddy's
bike and he did some electrical damage to it one winter morning when we
decided to attend two ABATE meetings on our bikes. It was 11 degrees F with
a high of 16F that day. He jumped his bike from a booster charger. Later he
discovered his alternator and voltage regulator/rectifier didn't work, so
perhaps the turn signal unit was damaged, too. He called me to take a look
at the bike because the horn and lights worked okay until you started the
engine, then everything would fade with the engine running.
Charlie Siegrist
2008-07-28 03:11:47 UTC
Permalink
Post by Chumbawumba
Post by Calgary
On Sun, 27 Jul 2008 22:33:47 GMT, "Chumbawumba"
Post by Chumbawumba
I guess I didn't write what I wanted to say, Robert. What I meant was, with
the Harley I had to keep the left turn signal switch pressed while I
also operated the clutch, when making a left turn.
Why would you have to keep the left turn signal switch pressed?
On the '89 Softtail I rode, if you didn't keep the button pressed, the
turn signal stopped operating.
If so, then it is broken.
Bruce Richmond
2008-07-28 03:38:26 UTC
Permalink
On Jul 27, 11:11 pm, Charlie Siegrist
Post by Charlie Siegrist
Post by Chumbawumba
Post by Calgary
On Sun, 27 Jul 2008 22:33:47 GMT, "Chumbawumba"
Post by Chumbawumba
I guess I didn't write what I wanted to say, Robert. What I meant was, with
the Harley I had to keep the left turn signal switch pressed while I
also operated the clutch, when making a left turn.
Why would you have to keep the left turn signal switch pressed?
On the '89 Softtail I rode, if you didn't keep the button pressed, the
turn signal stopped operating.
If so, then it is broken.
By design :)
Robert Bolton
2008-07-28 04:47:36 UTC
Permalink
On Sun, 27 Jul 2008 22:33:47 GMT, "Chumbawumba"
Post by Chumbawumba
Post by Robert Bolton
On Sat, 26 Jul 2008 19:08:45 GMT, "Chumbawumba"
Post by Chumbawumba
Post by Robert Bolton
On Sat, 26 Jul 2008 11:50:57 GMT, "Chumbawumba"
My turn signal switch is on the left, the same side as my clutch lever. I
don't know why you thought it wasn't.
Sorry, I have a bad habit of alluding to what I mean to say. That's
probably because I don't communicate well. Here's your statement I
was referring to -
Post by Chumbawumba
Post by Robert Bolton
Post by Chumbawumba
I rode a Harley
Softtail with the individual turn signal buttons but didn't care for it
especially when trying to operate the clutch lever at the same time.
Both bikes have a turn signal switch on the clutch side while the
Softail has an additional turn signal switch on the throttle side.
Reading the switch interrupted your clutch handling caused me to think
you were talking about the clutch side switch. I don't understand why
the Harley's switches would affect clutch operation any more than your
Shadow would because you Shadow also has a switch on the clutch side.
Were you're saying the throttle side switch affects clutch operations?
Robert
I guess I didn't write what I wanted to say, Robert. What I meant was, with
the Harley I had to keep the left turn signal switch pressed while I also
operated the clutch, when making a left turn. I was used to clicking the
Honda turn signal switch and then operating the clutch while still gripping
the handlebar with my thumb. I just found the Harley switch a little awkward
compared to what I was used to. Both types have their good points, though.
You can't leave the Harley turn signals running after you make your turn,
while the Honda only needs to be pressed to cancel.
I saw your response to Calgary, so I understand what you were getting
at. As RGD posted, the typical Harley turn signal (for older bikes at
least) automatically cancels after a set distance that varies with
speed. In your case, it sounds like the distance measuring circuit
was malfunctioning. I find my self canceling turn signals turn off
too soon for my style of signaling. I like to signal a few seconds
before slowing for the turn so vehicles behind me are alerted in
advance of my speed change. More often than not the turn signal
cancels about one second before I actually begin the turn.

I'll swear though, that every now and then my signals don't can cell.

Perhaps a hybrid of both styles would be nice. A back up timer of say
20 seconds could shut off your turn signal when you forget to do it
yourself.

Robert
The Older Gentleman
2008-07-28 06:25:05 UTC
Permalink
Post by Robert Bolton
Perhaps a hybrid of both styles would be nice. A back up timer of say
20 seconds could shut off your turn signal when you forget to do it
yourself.
Time-distance system. My BMW has that. Yamaha used to have the best
self-cancellers in the world, but for some inexplicable reason they
stopped fitting them.
--
BMW K1100LT Ducati 750SS Yamaha XT600E Honda CB400F MZ TS250/1
chateau dot murray at idnet dot com
"What you're proposing to do will involve a lot of time
and hassle for no tangible benefit."
S'mee
2008-07-28 14:56:40 UTC
Permalink
On Jul 28, 12:25 am, ***@yahoo.co.uk (The Older
Gentleman) wrote:

SNIP
Post by The Older Gentleman
Yamaha used to have the best
self-cancellers in the world, but for some inexplicable reason they
stopped fitting them.
Cost, took up too much space... The possible reasons are many though I
suspect the dreded "Bean Counter Syndome"

--
Keith
TOG@Toil
2008-07-28 15:19:15 UTC
Permalink
Post by S'mee
SNIP
Post by The Older Gentleman
Yamaha used to have the best
self-cancellers in the world, but for some inexplicable reason they
stopped fitting them.
Cost, took up too much space... The possible reasons are many though I
suspect the dreded "Bean Counter Syndome"
Could be. Kawasaki kept them fitted to some of their bikes right into
the 1990s. And BMW use them, of course. So it can't be product
liability worries. I guess you're right: cost-cutting. Shame, as
Yamaha's self-cancellers, well, they just worked as and when they were
supposed to. Brilliant.
Road Glidin' Don
2008-07-28 15:39:06 UTC
Permalink
Post by Calgary
On Sun, 27 Jul 2008 22:33:47 GMT, "Chumbawumba"
<snip>
Post by Calgary
In your case, it sounds like the distance measuring circuit
was malfunctioning.  
<snip>

No, actually that's the way Harley made to function, many years ago.
I hadn't considered he might be referring to such an old bike.
Post by Calgary
Perhaps a hybrid of both styles would be nice.  A back up timer of say
20 seconds could shut off your turn signal when you forget to do it
yourself.
You still sorta need a distance-calculation algorithm involved to
support self-cancelling. If not, the signals will cancel while you're
standing still, waiting for a traffic light to turn green and stuff
like that.
Robert Bolton
2008-07-30 06:20:56 UTC
Permalink
On Mon, 28 Jul 2008 08:39:06 -0700 (PDT), "Road Glidin' Don"
Post by Road Glidin' Don
Post by Calgary
On Sun, 27 Jul 2008 22:33:47 GMT, "Chumbawumba"
<snip>
Post by Calgary
In your case, it sounds like the distance measuring circuit
was malfunctioning.  
<snip>
No, actually that's the way Harley made to function, many years ago.
I hadn't considered he might be referring to such an old bike.
Post by Calgary
Perhaps a hybrid of both styles would be nice.  A back up timer of say
20 seconds could shut off your turn signal when you forget to do it
yourself.
You still sorta need a distance-calculation algorithm involved to
support self-cancelling. If not, the signals will cancel while you're
standing still, waiting for a traffic light to turn green and stuff
like that.
Yeah, that's true. Back in the old days there was probably only the
speedometer to work with, but these days there could be a programmable
timer coupled with a GPS. I could see a signal set to last X seconds
unless the GPS notes a turn, in which case the signal shuts off when
the turn ceases. The timer stops when the bike is not in motion.

Sounds complicated...

In other news, the only reason I'm here is because I drove the
motorhome to my house from storage, packed it up to go salmon
dipnetting, stopped at the gas station to fill up, and remembered I
hadn't converted the insurance from storage to active. I called in to
get it activated but can't get a proof of insurance card till the
morning. I could take my chances but didn't feel the need to do that.
Only 4 tides left in the season and I just missed one of them. The
last one is Thursday afternoon, which will be crap as the commercial
fishermen will be out there sucking them all up.

Robert
Road Glidin' Don
2008-07-30 16:44:54 UTC
Permalink
Post by Robert Bolton
In other news, the only reason I'm here is because I drove the
motorhome to my house from storage, packed it up to go salmon
dipnetting, stopped at the gas station to fill up, and remembered I
hadn't converted the insurance from storage to active.  I called in to
get it activated but can't get a proof of insurance card till the
morning.  I could take my chances but didn't feel the need to do that.
 Only 4 tides left in the season and I just missed one of them.  The
last one is Thursday afternoon, which will be crap as the commercial
fishermen will be out there sucking them all up.
Hope you still get some of those salmon anyway.

In the meantime, here's that picture I took of you, Sue and Lynn (with
Gladys):

Loading Image...
Robert Bolton
2008-08-01 04:28:22 UTC
Permalink
On Wed, 30 Jul 2008 09:44:54 -0700 (PDT), "Road Glidin' Don"
Post by Road Glidin' Don
Post by Robert Bolton
In other news, the only reason I'm here is because I drove the
motorhome to my house from storage, packed it up to go salmon
dipnetting, stopped at the gas station to fill up, and remembered I
hadn't converted the insurance from storage to active.  I called in to
get it activated but can't get a proof of insurance card till the
morning.  I could take my chances but didn't feel the need to do that.
 Only 4 tides left in the season and I just missed one of them.  The
last one is Thursday afternoon, which will be crap as the commercial
fishermen will be out there sucking them all up.
Hope you still get some of those salmon anyway.
In the meantime, here's that picture I took of you, Sue and Lynn (with
http://xidos.ca/Bikes/Whitehorse/pics/IMG_2310.JPG
Hey thanks for the pic, Don. Too bad I didn't hide my camera case.
I'm still waiting for my sis to send down the stills she took. She
did email me one of you and Gladys, which I'll post pretty quick. I'll
be back up in Fairbanks 16-23 Aug for weddings, so worst case is that
I'll bring the photos back with me then. I'm going to get the video
of the games up too sooner or later.

The dipnetting went OK, though not great. 16 Salmon in two tides,
with most of them being Pinks instead of Reds (BIG difference in
taste). I'll need to get out there earlier in July. We saw a few
bikes on the road with trailers, so now Sue says we need a trailer.
She must have really enjoyed the trip to Whitehorse and that intercom.

Robert

Uncle Vic
2008-07-24 04:44:50 UTC
Permalink
Post by David T. Ashley
This trend is in autos as well. Once you have one or two electronic
modules in the vehicle, you can do away with the turn signal flasher
and do it all in software.
Apparently, a lot of drivers have been able to hack their way out of this
software, as it is apparently much more macho to turn and swerve without
giving other drives a clue as to what you might do next.
--
Uncle Vic
04 Kawasaki Nomad
92 CB750 Screamin' Red Dead Head
David T. Ashley
2008-07-24 15:27:18 UTC
Permalink
Post by Uncle Vic
Post by David T. Ashley
This trend is in autos as well. Once you have one or two electronic
modules in the vehicle, you can do away with the turn signal flasher
and do it all in software.
Apparently, a lot of drivers have been able to hack their way out of this
software, as it is apparently much more macho to turn and swerve without
giving other drives a clue as to what you might do next.
If you give them notice, the enemy may deploy countermeasures.
Twibil
2008-07-23 23:33:06 UTC
Permalink
Post by Bob Myers
Always wondered if it wouldn't be sensible for the things
just to cancel on the next upshift after I first turn the
blinker on...
You don't signal your turns if you're decelerating?
Bob Myers
2008-07-24 02:39:08 UTC
Permalink
Post by Twibil
Post by Bob Myers
Always wondered if it wouldn't be sensible for the things
just to cancel on the next upshift after I first turn the
blinker on...
You don't signal your turns if you're decelerating?
Ummm...yeah, but I don't normally UPshift while
decelerating.

Bob M.
Twibil
2008-07-24 05:40:07 UTC
Permalink
Post by Twibil
Post by Bob Myers
Always wondered if it wouldn't be sensible for the things
just to cancel on the next upshift after I first turn the
blinker on...
You don't signal your turns if you're decelerating?
Ummm...yeah,  but I don't normally UPshift while
decelerating.
Think it through: your turn signals *wouldn't cancel* unless you
accelerated and upshifted after the turn you decelerated for, and you
don't accelerate and upshift when you turn into a parking lot, a
driveway, or a road with a significantly lower speed limit or more
congestion than the one you were leaving.

In other words, your signals would only self-cancel *part* of the
time, and it's a poor design that leaves a rider in doubt as to
whether or not it's going to function: it needs to work *all* of the
time -and reliably at that- or not at all.
Bob Myers
2008-07-24 16:07:52 UTC
Permalink
Post by Twibil
Think it through: your turn signals *wouldn't cancel* unless you
accelerated and upshifted after the turn you decelerated for, and you
don't accelerate and upshift when you turn into a parking lot, a
driveway, or a road with a significantly lower speed limit or more
congestion than the one you were leaving.
True, but I didn't say I was looking for a perfect solution
here - just one that would be simple to implement and
which would take care of the cancel problem during
those times when it's most troublesome. It's embarrasing
to look down and realize you've been going down the
road that last mile or two with the turn signal still blinking
away from that last turn. It doesn't bother me nearly
as much if I leave the signal on turning into a driveway or
parking lot, and I would say that turning on to a road with
a lower speed limit or more congestion still more often than
not would get an upshift at some point soon after the turn,
unless things are REALLY packed - in which case, I'll
catch the overlooked blinker pretty soon anyway (while
sitting there waiting for the traffic to let me move again,
for instance).

Also note that I wouldn't drop the manual cancel here -
I just want something that takes care of the cancellation
during most of those times when the rider neglects it.

Bob M.
Turby
2008-07-27 20:53:19 UTC
Permalink
On Thu, 24 Jul 2008 10:07:52 -0600, "Bob Myers"
... It's embarrasing
to look down and realize you've been going down the
road that last mile or two with the turn signal still blinking
away from that last turn.
When I was taught to drive, oh these many years ago, I was taught to
constantly keep my eyes moving. The majority of time is looking ahead,
watching the horizon, the foreground, sidestreets, parked cars, etc.
But a percentage is also spent looking in the mirror and the guages.
It's important to keep aware of everything going on around you. I
glance at my dash at least 2-3 times a minute, just out of habit.
--
Turby the Turbosurfer
Chumbawumba
2008-07-27 23:05:53 UTC
Permalink
Post by Turby
On Thu, 24 Jul 2008 10:07:52 -0600, "Bob Myers"
... It's embarrasing
to look down and realize you've been going down the
road that last mile or two with the turn signal still blinking
away from that last turn.
When I was taught to drive, oh these many years ago, I was taught to
constantly keep my eyes moving. The majority of time is looking ahead,
watching the horizon, the foreground, sidestreets, parked cars, etc.
But a percentage is also spent looking in the mirror and the guages.
It's important to keep aware of everything going on around you. I
glance at my dash at least 2-3 times a minute, just out of habit.
Excellent advice! That's why rider courses teach S.I.P.D.E. (pronounced
sip-dee.) Scan, Identify, Predict, Decide, Execute. It does save lives when
regularly practiced. Now if we could only get that across to cagers, there
might be less "I didn't see him" type of accidents.
The Older Gentleman
2008-07-28 06:25:05 UTC
Permalink
Post by Chumbawumba
That's why rider courses teach S.I.P.D.E. (pronounced
sip-dee.) Scan, Identify, Predict, Decide, Execute. It does save lives when
regularly practiced.
Cue newbie muttering to himself:

"Now, what did it stand for? Scan, Identify, Propose...? Hang on, I've
got it on a bit of tape stuck to the console... BANG!"
--
BMW K1100LT Ducati 750SS Yamaha XT600E Honda CB400F MZ TS250/1
chateau dot murray at idnet dot com
"What you're proposing to do will involve a lot of time
and hassle for no tangible benefit."
S'mee
2008-07-28 14:59:56 UTC
Permalink
Post by The Older Gentleman
Post by Chumbawumba
That's why rider courses teach S.I.P.D.E. (pronounced
sip-dee.) Scan, Identify, Predict, Decide, Execute. It does save lives when
regularly practiced.
"Now, what did it stand for? Scan, Identify, Propose...? Hang on, I've
got it on a bit of tape stuck to the console... BANG!"
Oh it's not that bad and as a whole it can be drilled into all but the
densest heads in an afternoon. 8^) Heck even an numbskull like me
learned it that quick. Mind you I don't think it...I just do it. Learn
to do without thinking, act without concious thought, see without
seeing and your chances of surviving most anything goes up
dramaticly.
--
Keith
Road Glidin' Don
2008-07-28 15:41:46 UTC
Permalink
Post by S'mee
Post by The Older Gentleman
Post by Chumbawumba
That's why rider courses teach S.I.P.D.E. (pronounced
sip-dee.) Scan, Identify, Predict, Decide, Execute. It does save lives when
regularly practiced.
"Now, what did it stand for? Scan, Identify, Propose...? Hang on, I've
got it on a bit of tape stuck to the console... BANG!"
Oh it's not that bad and as a whole it can be drilled into all but the
densest heads in an afternoon. 8^) Heck even an numbskull like me
learned it that quick. Mind you I don't think it...I just do it. Learn
to do without thinking, act without concious thought, see without
seeing and your chances of surviving most anything goes up
dramaticly.
Kinda describes the way some of us post here... ;)
S'mee
2008-07-29 04:09:46 UTC
Permalink
Post by S'mee
Post by The Older Gentleman
Post by Chumbawumba
That's why rider courses teach S.I.P.D.E. (pronounced
sip-dee.) Scan, Identify, Predict, Decide, Execute. It does save lives when
regularly practiced.
"Now, what did it stand for? Scan, Identify, Propose...? Hang on, I've
got it on a bit of tape stuck to the console... BANG!"
Oh it's not that bad and as a whole it can be drilled into all but the
densest heads in an afternoon. 8^) Heck even an numbskull like me
learned it that quick. Mind you I don't think it...I just do it. Learn
to do without thinking, act without concious thought, see without
seeing and your chances of surviving most anything goes up
dramaticly.
Kinda describes the way some of us post here...  ;)-
WELL! No need to get personal...I'm going to go pout now.
--
Keith
Chumbawumba
2008-07-28 21:09:43 UTC
Permalink
Post by The Older Gentleman
Post by Chumbawumba
That's why rider courses teach S.I.P.D.E. (pronounced
sip-dee.) Scan, Identify, Predict, Decide, Execute. It does save lives when
regularly practiced.
"Now, what did it stand for? Scan, Identify, Propose...? Hang on, I've
got it on a bit of tape stuck to the console... BANG!"
Oh it's not that bad and as a whole it can be drilled into all but the
densest heads in an afternoon. 8^) Heck even an numbskull like me
learned it that quick. Mind you I don't think it...I just do it. Learn
to do without thinking, act without concious thought, see without
seeing and your chances of surviving most anything goes up
dramaticly.
--
Keith

It may account for my 19 years of riding without a getoff. I don't claim to
be the best rider in the world, only the U.S. :- )

I'd recommend the courses to all riders. One of the things which surprised
me was the act of counter-steering. When I told some other riding friends of
mine, they thought I was crazy. The more you know about how your bike
functions, the better it may be you.
Chumbawumba
2008-07-28 20:39:40 UTC
Permalink
Post by The Older Gentleman
Post by Chumbawumba
That's why rider courses teach S.I.P.D.E. (pronounced
sip-dee.) Scan, Identify, Predict, Decide, Execute. It does save lives when
regularly practiced.
"Now, what did it stand for? Scan, Identify, Propose...? Hang on, I've
got it on a bit of tape stuck to the console... BANG!"
Ha, ha! I learned it back in 1989 when I took a 20-hour novice course
despite the fact I had already passed the test. It was reiterated each time
I took the Experienced Rider Course. Beats the heck out of relying on loud
pipes to ride as safely as possible. And I removed the card from the console
now that I remember it. Ya just gotta be careful not to Scan when you should
be Predicting.
Road Glidin' Don
2008-07-28 21:04:07 UTC
Permalink
Post by Chumbawumba
Post by The Older Gentleman
"Now, what did it stand for? Scan, Identify, Propose...? Hang on, I've
got it on a bit of tape stuck to the console... BANG!"
<snip>
Post by Chumbawumba
Beats the heck out of relying on loud
pipes to ride as safely as possible. And I removed the card from the console
now that I remember it.
Thanks. If I see a guy with quiet pipes talking to himself, I'll now
know the reason.
Marc Gerges
2008-07-29 06:11:16 UTC
Permalink
Post by Chumbawumba
Excellent advice! That's why rider courses teach S.I.P.D.E. (pronounced
sip-dee.) Scan, Identify, Predict, Decide, Execute. It does save lives when
regularly practiced. Now if we could only get that across to cagers, there
might be less "I didn't see him" type of accidents.
Could you elaborate a bit on what the methodology is about?

My basic working assumption for qualifying dangers has two steps. One,
if it moves, be prepared it'll be moving in the weirdest, unpredictable,
most damaging way. Two, if it doesn't move yet, it will probably soon.
See one.

cu
.\\arc
Twibil
2008-07-23 23:31:28 UTC
Permalink
Post by Road Glidin' Don
Harley signals self-cancel.
Which tells us that Harley knows they sell a lot of bikes to elderly
riders who suffer from Alzheimer's.
Road Glidin' Don
2008-07-24 00:02:38 UTC
Permalink
On Wed, 23 Jul 2008 16:31:28 -0700 (PDT), Twibil
Post by Twibil
Post by Road Glidin' Don
Harley signals self-cancel.
Which tells us that Harley knows they sell a lot of bikes to elderly
riders who suffer from Alzheimer's.
No wonder you call yourself Twibil.
Twibil
2008-07-24 05:27:27 UTC
Permalink
Post by Road Glidin' Don
Post by Twibil
Post by Road Glidin' Don
Harley signals self-cancel.
Which tells us that Harley knows they sell a lot of bikes to elderly
riders who suffer from Alzheimer's.
No wonder you call yourself Twibil.
Cut to the quick, eh?
Road Glidin' Don
2008-07-24 22:21:16 UTC
Permalink
Post by Twibil
Post by Road Glidin' Don
Post by Twibil
Post by Road Glidin' Don
Harley signals self-cancel.
Which tells us that Harley knows they sell a lot of bikes to elderly
riders who suffer from Alzheimer's.
No wonder you call yourself Twibil.
Cut to the quick, eh?
More like being quibbled to death. ;)
.***@see_my_sig_for_address.com
2008-07-24 22:25:11 UTC
Permalink
On Thu, 24 Jul 2008 15:21:16 -0700 (PDT), "Road Glidin' Don"
Post by Road Glidin' Don
Post by Twibil
Post by Road Glidin' Don
Post by Twibil
Post by Road Glidin' Don
Harley signals self-cancel.
Which tells us that Harley knows they sell a lot of bikes to elderly
riders who suffer from Alzheimer's.
No wonder you call yourself Twibil.
Cut to the quick, eh?
More like being quibbled to death. ;)
Ah, the Trouble with Twibils .....
--
Click here every day to feed an animal that needs you today !!!
www.theanimalrescuesite.com/

Paul ( pjm @ pobox . com ) - remove spaces to email me
'Some days, it's just not worth chewing through the restraints.'
'With sufficient thrust, pigs fly just fine.'
HVAC/R program for Palm PDA's
Free demo online at www.pmilligan.net/palm/
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Road Glidin' Don
2008-07-24 22:37:28 UTC
Permalink
Post by .***@see_my_sig_for_address.com
On Thu, 24 Jul 2008 15:21:16 -0700 (PDT), "Road Glidin' Don"
Post by Twibil
Post by Road Glidin' Don
Post by Twibil
Post by Road Glidin' Don
Harley signals self-cancel.
Which tells us that Harley knows they sell a lot of bikes to elderly
riders who suffer from Alzheimer's.
No wonder you call yourself Twibil.
Cut to the quick, eh?
More like being quibbled to death.  ;)
        Ah, the Trouble with Twibils .....
You mean, the Twubble with Twibils...
Twibil
2008-07-25 04:42:04 UTC
Permalink
Post by .***@see_my_sig_for_address.com
        Ah, the Trouble with Twibils .....
Wrong pronunciation.

Tribbles rhymes with dribbles.

Twibil rhymes with tribal.

Think of an Native American with a lisp.
Twibil
2008-07-25 04:36:52 UTC
Permalink
Post by Twibil
Post by Road Glidin' Don
Post by Twibil
Post by Road Glidin' Don
Harley signals self-cancel.
Which tells us that Harley knows they sell a lot of bikes to elderly
riders who suffer from Alzheimer's.
No wonder you call yourself Twibil.
Cut to the quick, eh?
More like being quibbled to death.  ;)
Uh, non-sequitur.

Twy'-bill (n.) Compounded from the old English "twi"; meaning two of
anything, as in twilight or twice, and "bil"; meaning a blade or
cutting edge. Esp. a double-bitted axe or mattock.
o***@hotmail.com
2008-07-24 02:09:03 UTC
Permalink
Post by Road Glidin' Don
Harley signals self-cancel.
Yamaha's used to but it doesn't seem like it any more.
Bg
oasysco
2008-07-24 09:45:36 UTC
Permalink
Post by Road Glidin' Don
Post by oasysco
Rather than bitch about it, I bought this...
http://glensvtxgarage.com/turnsignal_beeper.html
The cheapie at the end. I have an audible and fairly loud signal click
like you get on cars on my 80CC Honda scooter. This item gives me a
100db beep when I leabe my turn signal on. It's $27 well spent, AFAIC.
Harley signals self-cancel.
Yeah, and HDs come with real cruise control, EFI, belt drive, all
lights burn when stopping, chrome instead of plasti-chrome, fuel
gauge, built-in accessory hookups, and who knows what else! But I'm
talking Honda here :)-

That said, I'd still take this sweet ride over a modern HD or Honda
or... http://norfolk.craigslist.org/mcy/767202337.html

Greg
Road Glidin' Don
2008-07-24 22:25:29 UTC
Permalink
Post by oasysco
That said, I'd still take this sweet ride over a modern HD or Honda
or...http://norfolk.craigslist.org/mcy/767202337.html
For the amount of riding you do, a Shovel would be perfect,
alright. ;)
oasysco
2008-07-25 13:17:04 UTC
Permalink
Post by Road Glidin' Don
Post by oasysco
That said, I'd still take this sweet ride over a modern HD or Honda
or...http://norfolk.craigslist.org/mcy/767202337.html
For the amount of riding you do, a Shovel would be perfect,
alright.  ;)
What riding? This thing would be put out to stud in my garage.
Greg
The Older Gentleman
2008-07-23 21:17:22 UTC
Permalink
Post by oasysco
Rather than bitch about it, I bought this...
http://glensvtxgarage.com/turnsignal_beeper.html
The cheapie at the end. I have an audible and fairly loud signal click
like you get on cars on my 80CC Honda scooter. This item gives me a
100db beep when I leabe my turn signal on. It's $27 well spent, AFAIC.
God. The bike industry abandoned audible turn signals as a Bad Idea some
30 years ago, and not only does someone now make aftermarket units, but
some idiot buys one....
--
BMW K1100LT Ducati 750SS Yamaha XT600E Honda CB400F MZ TS250/1
chateau dot murray at idnet dot com
"What you're proposing to do will involve a lot of time
and hassle for no tangible benefit."
Uncle Vic
2008-07-24 04:48:59 UTC
Permalink
Post by The Older Gentleman
Post by oasysco
Rather than bitch about it, I bought this...
http://glensvtxgarage.com/turnsignal_beeper.html
The cheapie at the end. I have an audible and fairly loud signal click
like you get on cars on my 80CC Honda scooter. This item gives me a
100db beep when I leabe my turn signal on. It's $27 well spent, AFAIC.
God. The bike industry abandoned audible turn signals as a Bad Idea some
30 years ago, and not only does someone now make aftermarket units, but
some idiot buys one....
The same should be true about horns. Between cell phones, soccer kids, and
crankin' sub-bass woofers, who hears bike horns?
--
Uncle Vic
04 Kawasaki Nomad
92 CB750 Screamin' Red Dead Head
The Older Gentleman
2008-07-24 06:24:42 UTC
Permalink
Post by Uncle Vic
The same should be true about horns. Between cell phones, soccer kids, and
crankin' sub-bass woofers, who hears bike horns?
They may hear 'em, but they don't seem to notice 'em, IYSWIM.
--
BMW K1100LT Ducati 750SS Yamaha XT600E Honda CB400F MZ TS250/1
chateau dot murray at idnet dot com
"What you're proposing to do will involve a lot of time
and hassle for no tangible benefit."
Uncle Vic
2008-07-24 04:38:54 UTC
Permalink
Post by oasysco
For me, it was a good reminder of how little respect mc riders get on
the road that some drivers treat us as nothing more than a bicycle or
pedestrian
Right, someone else they can kill with their non-existent driving skills.

I was walking to my mechanic's to pick up my bike, when I walked in front
of a lady driving an SUV, stopped, checking traffic before making a right
turn. When I was right in front of her, she began the turn, sending me
dancing off on a tangent, and the helmet I was carrying bouncing off into
traffic. Must've been the helmet.
Post by oasysco
- surely, we can get out of their way easily enough.
I couldn't.
Post by oasysco
Secondly, it was a good reminder on how important it is to make sure
you turn off those signals as some cagers combine their disrepect for
motorcyclists with being in a hurry.
Fuck what they think. Follow what YOU think. Always ride with the
assumption that they are blind, stupid, drunk, or all three. Keep in mind
that most of them barely squeaked by on the physical driving part of the
DMV test, and have never bothered to hone their skills beyond that. In
fact, most have added iPods, cell phones, and Starbucks to their list of
distractions.

Be careful out there.
--
Uncle Vic
04 Kawasaki Nomad
92 CB750 Screamin' Red Dead Head
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