OT (Semi) - Welding technique for motorcycle luggage rack

[shadowjoe]

To all the mechanically inclined out there:

I'm trying to fabricate a luggage rack / auxillary tank mount on a
cruiser. I'm working with 1/8" steel I picked up at Home Depot. 1"
wide strips about a foot long on the left and right with 1/2" X 1/2"
square crosspieces every couple of inches. The 1" strips are mounted at
two (pre existing) points on each each side and the crosspieces will be
welded between them. It should be vastly over engineered. Maybe a
little ugly too. But if you can outfit the rear of your bike like a
mini-flatbed and FEEL like it...why not go for it? The whole thing is
1/8" thickness steel (yeah it's overkill but that's what I'd like to use
if at all possible.) To avoid rust I'll paint it with a rattle can and
eventually cover most of the surfaces with strips of 1/8" thick
aluminum. Chrome? Way too expensive...I'm going utilitarian on this
project.

Actually the welded steel with aluminum on top was more than just a
whim. I've seen way too much crome on way too many cruisers and am
going with cheap steel and aluminum just for a counterpoint. I think it
might look pretty cool in an unconventional way. If it looks lame it'll
still surve the purpose.

I have done a little arc welding but never had my own equipment. All
I've used are big welding machines at a community college. I can lay an
o.k. bead but only if someone else puts the steel and stick in my hand
and points me to the welder.

For this project I picked up a cheap but not too small 220V AC/DC arc
welder from Harbor Freight & Tool. I've been playing around with 1/8"
stick electrodes (#6013) on scraps of 1/8" steel. I'm finding it hard
to strike and control the bead. I'm using it on AC cranked up pretty
high voltage. When I get the arc going it's plenty hot enough to do the
task but it's not so easy to get the arc started and managed. Am I
using the right sticks?

Thanks.

Shadowjoe

[Sunny]

Post by shadowjoe
I'm trying to fabricate a luggage rack / auxillary tank mount on a
cruiser. I'm working with 1/8" steel I picked up at Home Depot. 1"
wide strips about a foot long on the left and right with 1/2" X 1/2"
square crosspieces every couple of inches. The 1" strips are mounted at
two (pre existing) points on each each side and the crosspieces will be
welded between them. It should be vastly over engineered. Maybe a
little ugly too. But if you can outfit the rear of your bike like a
mini-flatbed and FEEL like it...why not go for it? The whole thing is
1/8" thickness steel (yeah it's overkill but that's what I'd like to use
if at all possible.) To avoid rust I'll paint it with a rattle can and
eventually cover most of the surfaces with strips of 1/8" thick
aluminum. Chrome? Way too expensive...I'm going utilitarian on this
project.
Actually the welded steel with aluminum on top was more than just a
whim. I've seen way too much crome on way too many cruisers and am
going with cheap steel and aluminum just for a counterpoint. I think it
might look pretty cool in an unconventional way. If it looks lame it'll
still surve the purpose.

You are the one you need to please. :-)

Post by shadowjoe
I have done a little arc welding but never had my own equipment. All
I've used are big welding machines at a community college. I can lay an
o.k. bead but only if someone else puts the steel and stick in my hand
and points me to the welder.
For this project I picked up a cheap but not too small 220V AC/DC arc
welder from Harbor Freight & Tool. I've been playing around with 1/8"
stick electrodes (#6013) on scraps of 1/8" steel. I'm finding it hard
to strike and control the bead. I'm using it on AC cranked up pretty
high voltage. When I get the arc going it's plenty hot enough to do the
task but it's not so easy to get the arc started and managed. Am I
using the right sticks?

The sticks are ok. If you have a fine controll, use 80 to 110 amps. If you
switch to DC, you'll have a "smoother" arc.

Clamp the pieces together and use both hands. One to hold the stick and one
to brace with, so when you strike, you have more controll. Get closer to
your work, so once you get the puddle formed, you can see to controll the
puddle. If you have trouble seeing it, get some cheap reading glasses to
wear under the helmet (to see up close). Use wrist action and not arm
action.
I suggest you practice on a scrap piece first. Weld horizonally. It's much
easier.

Welding can be fun. Enjoy. :-)

--
Sunny, RCOS #7
'02 XVS650A "Deerslayer"
"God does not deduct from one's allotted hours, the time spent on a
motorcycle."

[bob prohaska]

Post by shadowjoe
I'm trying to fabricate a luggage rack / auxillary tank mount on a
cruiser. I'm working with 1/8" steel I picked up at Home Depot. 1"

To each his own, but I'd suggest forming up the metal and letting
somebody skilled do the welding. Fitting up the parts is slow work,
once they fit the welding is fast. If they don't fit......it'll show.

Had to make a rack for a dirtbike. I bent the tubing so it could
be tacked together in place on the bike and then removed for final
welding. The welder did the tacks, I pulled the rack and he finished
in a few minutes.

The rack came out extremely well, the welds were better than
anything I could have hoped to make in reasonable time and the
welding was by far the quickest part of the job.

If you _want_ to do the welding go for it. That's a much longer
project.

hth,

bob prohaska

[Odinn]

Post by shadowjoe
I'm trying to fabricate a luggage rack / auxillary tank mount on a
cruiser. I'm working with 1/8" steel I picked up at Home Depot. 1"
wide strips about a foot long on the left and right with 1/2" X 1/2"
square crosspieces every couple of inches. The 1" strips are mounted at
two (pre existing) points on each each side and the crosspieces will be
welded between them. It should be vastly over engineered. Maybe a
little ugly too. But if you can outfit the rear of your bike like a
mini-flatbed and FEEL like it...why not go for it? The whole thing is
1/8" thickness steel (yeah it's overkill but that's what I'd like to use
if at all possible.) To avoid rust I'll paint it with a rattle can and
eventually cover most of the surfaces with strips of 1/8" thick
aluminum. Chrome? Way too expensive...I'm going utilitarian on this
project.
Actually the welded steel with aluminum on top was more than just a
whim. I've seen way too much crome on way too many cruisers and am
going with cheap steel and aluminum just for a counterpoint. I think it
might look pretty cool in an unconventional way. If it looks lame it'll
still surve the purpose.
I have done a little arc welding but never had my own equipment. All
I've used are big welding machines at a community college. I can lay an
o.k. bead but only if someone else puts the steel and stick in my hand
and points me to the welder.
For this project I picked up a cheap but not too small 220V AC/DC arc
welder from Harbor Freight & Tool. I've been playing around with 1/8"
stick electrodes (#6013) on scraps of 1/8" steel. I'm finding it hard
to strike and control the bead. I'm using it on AC cranked up pretty
high voltage. When I get the arc going it's plenty hot enough to do the
task but it's not so easy to get the arc started and managed. Am I
using the right sticks?
Thanks.

For 1/8" steel, you shouldn't need the heat up too high, but it
definitely sounds like you got the wrong sticks. If it's good steel
(AISI-SAE 1015 to 1025 steels), I would use an 1/8" E6010 rod at about
90 amps. Personally, I'ld use a wire welder (0.025 wire) instead of a
stick, tho.
--
Odinn
RCOS #7

"The more I study religions the more I am convinced that man never
worshipped anything but himself." -- Sir Richard Francis Burton

Reeky's unofficial homepage ... http://www.reeky.org
'03 FLHTI ........... http://www.sloanclan.org/gallery/ElectraGlide
'97 VN1500D ......... http://www.sloanclan.org/gallery/VulcanClassic
Atlanta Biker Net ... http://www.atlantabiker.net
Vulcan Riders Assoc . http://www.vulcanriders.org

rot13 ***@ngynagnovxre.arg to reply

[Paul Calman]

I'd go with wire-feed, or brazing. You could silver-solder stainless, and
polish it.

[Jack Hunt]

Post by Paul Calman
I'd go with wire-feed, or brazing. You could silver-solder stainless, and
polish it.

You can use a 316-L stick on stainless and polish it. By wire-feed,
do you mean TIG, MIG, or flux core? The wrong wire feed could make a
poor weld. Brazing would not be reliable for a luggage rack and it
would look funny unless you paint it.


--
Road Dog
IBA#12795
'99 ST1100

[jim rozen]

Post by Jack Hunt
You can use a 316-L stick on stainless and polish it. By wire-feed,
do you mean TIG, MIG, or flux core? The wrong wire feed could make a
poor weld. Brazing would not be reliable for a luggage rack and it
would look funny unless you paint it.

Most silver solders have a 60ksi tensile. They're plenty
strong for the application for all but the most bone-headed
joint designs.

This is how I made a custom rack for my vintage bike. Granted
it does 'look funny' (two-tone) but it works just fine.

Jim

[Jack Hunt]

Post by jim rozen
Most silver solders have a 60ksi tensile.

Silver solder is not brazing, but it is similar.

Brazing is not as strong due to the materials used.


--
Road Dog
IBA#12795
'99 ST1100

[jim rozen]

Post by Jack Hunt
Silver solder is not brazing, but it is similar.

The terms "hard solder, silver solder, brazing, and brass
welding" are used interchangeably in the common use.
They don't all mean exactly the same thing, as the filler
materials vary in composition, but they do share some
of the same features:

1) joining similar or dis-similar metals using a third
material as the filler. The third material can be all
sorts of things induding alloys containing copper, tin,
cadmium, silver, and can even be pure copper or nichrome.

2) melting temperature of the filler is in excess of
800 F, which separates the technique from soft soldering.

Most braze alloys and all of the silver solder alloys
show tensile strenghts very far in ecess of soft solder
materials, and for any reasonably designed and executed
joint, will give a connection that exceeds the strength
of the tubing used.

Adhesion of brazing alloys to the base metal is a not-very
well understood phenomenon, and the subject of considerable
study.

Jim

[Paul Calman]

Since the original poster has purchased a stick welder, SMAW seems to be
what he will use. I don't prefer that method for light work, a wire feed MIG
is perfect for that, but using flux-core would be silly when you can use gas
shielding.
Brazing is plenty strong for a luggage rack, and would look cleaner, and he
said he would paint it. None of the lightweight Lotus suspension parts I
made using gas-flux brazing has had a joint failure, but the tubes get
pretty tweaked in a crash. Brazing it what was used to assemble most vintage
motorcycle frames, and is very suitable to joints subject to vibration and
minor flexing.

[shadowjoe]

Post by Paul Calman
Since the original poster has purchased a stick welder, SMAW seems to be
what he will use. I don't prefer that method for light work, a wire feed MIG
is perfect for that, but using flux-core would be silly when you can use gas
shielding.
Brazing is plenty strong for a luggage rack, and would look cleaner, and he
said he would paint it. None of the lightweight Lotus suspension parts I
made using gas-flux brazing has had a joint failure, but the tubes get
pretty tweaked in a crash. Brazing it what was used to assemble most vintage
motorcycle frames, and is very suitable to joints subject to vibration and
minor flexing.

Right on... I'm the original poster, I've got a stick welder and
therefore that's what I'll try to use. I don't care too much if it's
suboptimal, ugly, or just plain silly. It was cheap and I've been
looking for an excuse to buy a SMAW setup forever (even if MIG / TIG is
far superior). Did I mention it was cheap?

That said I've found that I'm not nearly the welder I thought. Like I
said, I've only used SMAW at a community college. With their setup I
was doing fine but with my own I'm all thumbs. Either I've picked the
wrong sticks or set it up wrong...or I suck! I've tried 6013 sticks in
1/8", 3/32", and 1/16" sizes with pathetic results. No control! Looks
like a monkey did it!

I'll be busy with other things for a week or so but when I get a chance
I'm going to try again. If I miraculously get a grip and do a good job
I'll be sure to post a followup. (I've been just playing with scrap for
the moment.) If you never hear from me again assume I did a terrible
job. :-)

Shadowjoe

[Paul Calman]

I probably should have started out by redirecting you to
sci.engr.joining.welding , some of the guys there like Ernie are wizards.
Another NG is rec.crafts.metalworking , and a here's a useful link
, http://www.metalworking.com/
I generally only use my SMAW for heavy stuff like trailer frames and iron
castings.

[jim rozen]

Post by Paul Calman
I probably should have started out by redirecting you to
sci.engr.joining.welding , some of the guys there like Ernie are wizards.

If it's Ernie Lemkeiler (sp?) then that that's the place
to go, full stop. No better advice than that.

Jim